Firing Squads - Optional or Not?

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

I was under the impression that if a soldier was selected for a firing squad he could refuse.

Interestingly one of my work colleagues brought in part of her great-grandfather's service record showing that he was given 7 days field punishment number 2 in August 1917 for refusing to be part of a firing squad. Can anyone enlighten me!!

Ian

[Tom Morgan]

I don't think they could refuse. There's an account (can't remember where I read it but I'm sure others will know the author) by a sergeant who had just made his choice, and he said that the men were distraught, offering him everything they had if only he would let them off and choose someone else, and finally calling him all the names under the sun when he wouldn't be moved. Incidentally, it was never "firing squad", always "firing party."

Tom

PS - Firing Parties were also selected to fire volleys at funerals.

[Guest Hussar]

I also believe they couldn't refuse as, having been detailed off, it was effectively a 'Duty'. Failure to comply could thus result in their being charged with insubordination, direct disobedience, failure to carry out a 'lawful' order etc.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Well looks like that seems to be the case here.

Thanks,

Ian

[CROONAERT]

Is it true that firing parties usually only consisted of soldiers who were entitled to wear the marksman's crossed rifles?

Dave.

[Tom Morgan]

Is it true that firing parties usually only consisted of soldiers who were entitled to wear the marksman's crossed rifles?

Dave.

I don't think so, Dave. Hitting the target at such a short distance didn't require much skill. Mental attitude towards the job in hand was more important and I think that those responsible for making the choice would go for the Company "Hard Men" - some of whom might even have volunteered if they had been invited to.

My great-uncle Martin, who had a reputation for being a bit of a teararway, is recorded as being sent away from the unit for three or four days of "special duties" at about the same time that a man in his battalion was executed.

Tom

[Tim Birch]

I have heard that a firing party normally were given a double tot of rum after the execution to steady them. It must have been a very traumatic experience for the average man.

Did firing parties shoot men from their own battalion or was the duty carried out by men from another battalion, and did the condemed man get offered a tot of rum before being brought out?

Tim

[Tom Morgan]

I have heard that a firing party normally were given a double tot of rum after the execution to steady them. It must have been a very traumatic experience for the average man.

Did firing parties shoot men from their own battalion or was the duty carried out by men from another battalion, and did the condemed man get offered a tot of rum before being brought out?

Tim

I'm no expert on this but Anthony Babington ("For the Sake of Example") writes:

It was customary for a firing party to be selected from the soldier's own unit, but there was no inflexible rule to this effect. Sometimes the men were found from another battalion in the same brigade, and on one occasion in France in 1916 the firing party was made up of detachments from two different battalions.

Tom

[hmsk212]

Quote from "Twice in a Lifetime" by M L Walkinton a Lieutenant with 47th M G Battalion. :-

Throughout the war the penalty for desertion in the face of the enemy was death. In some cases the penalty was commuted, but in many it was not and one was accustomed to reading in Army orders "--- was sentenced to death by shooting. This order was duly carried out". This was all part of the Army way of things and it was accepted by everybody I knew as being just and fair. If you deserted and let your friends down and left them to do your fighting for you you deserved what you got. The grim notices in Army orders always concerned some individual one had never heard of and one glossed over many unpleasant things at the front. It came as a great shock, however, when the Colonel sent for me and told me that I had to provide a firing party from my Company to shoot a man who had been convicted of desertion on three separate occasions. No one in the Company could remember him. It seemed that on the final occasion he joined it one day and deserted the next when on the way up to the line. Colonel Portal himself named the officer to be in charge of the firing party.

There were six men armed with rifles in the party. Unseen by them the rifles were loaded by the sergeant supervised by the officer. Five rifles were loaded with live rounds and one with blank. This was so that each man could feel that he might be the one who fired the blank. Six men with long service at the front were chosen and though they all hated the job they all loyally obeyed their orders. The shooting took place at dawn near some farm buildings about two miles away. The only people present were the deserter, a chaplain who read some prayers, a doctor, the Provost Marshal and an escort of Military Police, and the firing party. The officer in charge told me when he returned that the condemned man, "a nice, quiet, friendly sort of chap", smiled on the firing party and assured them that he bore no ill-will and realised that they had to obey their orders. He was then blindfolded, a bit of white paper was pinned near his heart, the escort stepped aside and the order to fire was given. The man fell dead, and after a very brief prayer the firing party marched away leaving the Military Police to deal with the body. It was a very quiet and thoughtful party that returned to the Company. At their own desire they immediately joined in with the normal parades and tried to forget their unpleasant experience. The rest of us tried to treat them as if nothing abnormal had happened.

I think that this quote may answer a few of the questions raised on this topic.

Steve

[Tim Birch]

Steve

The bit about one rifle being loaded with blank is interesting, as it is something I had heard about but never seen in print. However a soldier would know whether or not he had fired blank depending on the recoil, so it seems rather a pointless exercise.

Tim

[Greenwoodman]

Oh, I don't know Tim. It may well have given the individuals in the firing party some comfort up to the actual moment of firing to know that it may well not be that individual.

Not that I'm convinced about the blank either way.

[John_Hartley]

Also might have aided them to aim straight if they thought they had the blank.

[munce]

I always thought that the purpose behind the blank was a little different; not that it was supposed to make a soldier feel better by convincing himself that he might have had the blank, but as a means of protecting him against anyone in the future laying the blame for the death at his door. Each man in the firing party could claim to have had the blank and thus none of them could be individually held to blame.

[Tom Morgan]

We've been down this road before! I think the "blank" story has appeared in print several times, but always in a second-hand version. I still don't consider it a proven practice. Invariably, the writers who describe how executions were carried out - including the use of blank - didn't attend the executions they were writing about. The example quoted by Steve is one such. The writer was not the officer in charge of the firing party and wasn't present at the execution himself.

What no-one has been able to find (at least, I don't think so) is a written memoir in which the writer says, "I loaded the rifles and I put a blank round in one of them" or, "I fired and I knew there and then that I had just fired a blank round."

(Or a set of instructions for the officer in charge, mentioning the blank round.)

Tom

[BeppoSapone]

Steve

The bit about one rifle being loaded with blank is interesting, as it is something I had heard about but never seen in print. However a soldier would know whether or not he had fired blank depending on the recoil, so it seems rather a pointless exercise.

Tim

'Wrong' war and 'wrong' army, but interesting all the same.

According to the book by William Bradford Huie. In January 1945 when the Americans shot Eddie Slovik, one of the rifles was definately loaded with a blank. IIRC the reason for this was more or less said to be a tradition going back to the days of the American Civil War, and muskets.

By WW2 there was no doubt about which soldier in the twelve man firing squad had had the blank. The M-1 rifle firing the blank did not kick back as much, and the used case was not ejected.

Out of interest, all eleven bullets hit Slovik but "Not one of the bullets had struck the heart". It seems as if 'better results' would have been obtained if a paper target had been pinned over Slovik's heart.

This poor shooting was despite the fact that the members of the firing squad were all marksmen "these men were picked by Colonel Rudder on the basis of being expert riflemen. All three battalions of the regiment were represented." The regiment being 109th Infantry, of 28th Division.

The firing squad were also ordered to take part in the execution. One man was told that he was going to be part of the detail, and later said to Huie: "I couldn't quite believe it so I went off to see the captain. I asked him if there was any way to get out of the firing-squad deal. His reply was: 'Not unless you want to take his place'."

Interestingly this 1954 American publication names the members of the firing squad, including their service numbers. From their service numbers it seems as if, of the dozen men, and the Sgt in charge, twelve were draftees. Only one was a regular soldier, and this was not the Sgt.

According to Father Cummings, the Catholic chaplain: "Slovik was the bravest man in the garden that morning".

[Mark Hone]

I'd be able to tell you a lot more about this but (luckily or unluckily) my Dad's name didn't come out of the hat when men from his battalion (1st Northants) formed the firing squad for the brutal General Shempei in Singapore in 1946.

[Guest Hussar]

Just been reading a bit of 'Forgotten Voices' and realised I may have to reassess my position on this. In it, one of the Vets, Corporal Bray, talks about when he was selected for a firing party. He was told by an old sweat that it was the one thing, in the Army, that he could refuse to do, so he went to his Sergeant, told him he didn't want to do it, and heard no more about it.

On the same page (p89 for those interested ) Rifleman Williamson, of LRB, as a member of a firing party, mentions about some rifles being loaded with blanks. He also confirms that they knew as soon as they'd pulled the trigger, what kind of round they'd fired.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Henry Williamson is an interesting charecter. He can be seen in the BBC series The Great War, talking about the Christmas Truce of 1914 and about the Execution referred to above by Hussar. He was later commissioned into the MGC.

Ian

[Broznitsky]

Or a set of instructions for the officer in charge, mentioning the blank round.

In Malcolm Brown's IWM Western Front Chapter 20, Capt. Esler MO of 2nd Middlesex talks about blanks being used at a execution he attended (although he doesn't describe seeing them loaded). Capt. Schweder describes an execution in which half the party had blanks (again he did not actually witness the loading).

Capt. Westmacott, APM of 1st Indian Cavalry describes unloading some of the rifles used by the firing party at two executions he was OC of.

Not quite the smoking gun we need, but there it is.

Please forgive me for the above unintended pun.

Peter in snowy Vancouver

[Jim_Grundy]

My Dad's step-father was a member of a firing party. He told my Dad about it shortly before his death. He said that there was one rifle loaded with a blank but that he didn't have it.

Trying to match executions amongst the two battalions with which he served (it was someone from his own battalion apparently) and the time he served with them, I think I know which man he shot. In 2000 I visited the man's grave with a party of school kids and told the story of what had happened. It was a quite an experience I can tell you. The kids were visibly moved and some had a tear in their eyes, as did I.

Jim