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Remembered Today:

5th battalion rifle brigade


neddan

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hi all, recently found wedding certificate of my gt grandfather states he was a sargeant in 5th battalion rifle brigade,based in minster on sea isle of sheppey 15/7/1919 also know he was a corporal in 4th ? battalion 1908 and that he was at relief of ladysmith earlier any other info would be greatly recieved

cheers neddan

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Neddan,

Could you post your grandfathers name and I will see what I have, although the 4th Battalion did not partake in the Relief of Ladysmith, that was the 1st Battalion with a few men from the 2nd Battalion placed in Composite Companies.

Andy

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hi stilleto,

think he was in 4th battalion but definately in 5th in 1919, his name was William James Batchelor has ladysmith medal i know he was corporal in 1908 and sergeant in 1919 based isle of sheppy 1919

cheers for any help Neddan

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Neddan,

There is a W. Batchelor in the Queens South Africa Medal Roll, Number 1499, 1st Battalion Rifle Brigade, who had the Cape Colony, Transvaal, Tugela Heights, Relief of Ladysmith and Laings Nek bars. I will check through the WW1 rolls for you to see if this is your man.

Andy

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Neddan,

There is a W. Batchelor in the Queens South Africa Medal Roll, Number 1499, 1st Battalion Rifle Brigade, who had the Cape Colony, Transvaal, Tugela Heights, Relief of Ladysmith and Laings Nek bars. I will check through the WW1 rolls for you to see if this is your man.

Andy

thanks very much Andy,

:o seems he was more regular army than the family realised,and saw quite a bit of action, we seem to think that minster on sea,isle of sheppy was a training/holding camp 1919 so maybe he was an instructor as he was first married 1908 we believed him to have come out of army then as corporal but the second wedding certificate that has just come to light shows him as sergeant in 5th in 1919, yet believe he would of been to old for conscription at outbreak of war and had 2 sons.perhaps reserve list or volounteer ? at outbreak he would of been 38/39 yrs old.

be grateful anymore light you could shed on him

regards Neil

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hi stilletto,

as an add on i have just found another document,it is his re-enlistment paper,stating his address in rotherhithe which i knew and that he was working as commisionair (sergeant) and had 16 years service in rifle brigade. He re-enlisted for war service on 29/7/1915 and had recieved notice ? (reserve callup ??) i believe he left army 1908 origionally so this would mean he served rifle brigade from 1892-1908.

as he married a woman from Malta in december 1908. she was daughter of member of RA in malta and the 4th battalion RB had demobbed men travel from malta october 1908 after being stationed there i believed him to of been in 4th. So is it possible he was in 1st battalion in south africa then moved to 4th later .

anymore info Andy would be really helpful

P.S. still trying to find details of his first wife Alice Rose HENRY as i say born in malta in army chaplain records and RA birth records and family story says her father was an officer but no luck tracing.

cheers Neil

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Neddan,

Do you have a service number for him as there are a few Batchelor's turning up.

Andy

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Neddan,

Do you have a service number for him as there are a few Batchelor's turning up.

Andy

yes Andy,

his re-enlistment number was 13606

Neil

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Neil,

Do you have his Medal Index Card as there is no 13606. First thought was that it was S-13606 but he does not seem to be there.

Andy

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi Stiletto

private W Batchelor 1499 was my gt grandfather,and he re-enlisted in 1915 with second number quoted earlier cannot seem to find his WW1 record though know he was at Minster on Sea Isle of Sheppy 1919 by his wedding certificate and a sargeant.

any further assistance in filling in blanks greatly appreciated, especially battalion history if poss as you stated 1st and some second at ladysmith but we thought he was in 4th,but you would know more than myself on how much change between battalions went on pre WW1,further to the South Africa medals he was also in india as per pm i sent to you.

cheers Neil

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Neddan,

Will do some more digging for you. The 4th RB did not go to South Africa until 1902, landing there on 4/1/02 and were mainly employed on the blockhouse lines, however a fair few of the 4th RB were sent into Mounted Infantry Companies from Ireland to South Africa. You are absolutely correct that the 4th RB were in Malta in 1908 before going to Egypt so it looks like he moved from the 1st to the 4th sometime after the Boer War.

Andy

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Is it possible he was home service only during WW1, this would explain the lack of Medal Index Card, unless you've now found one.

Regards

Ali

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He isn't in any of the medal rolls , including the supplementaries , and yes the 5th along with the 6th were training battalions on Sheppey .

I think Ali has hit it on the head , he enlisted as a New Army man and his number was S/13606 , not uncommon to miss out the pre-fix , the other S/ men either side of his number enlisted at about the same time .

Due to his age and experience he probably stayed with the 5th as an instructor and didn't go overseas so wouldn't appear on the medal rolls .

Unfortunately virtually untraceable .

Chris

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4th RB 1908, Malta

1.39Mb image removed: please re-read http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...p;f=41&id=3

Andy,

If you want some help reducing the file size of this image so you can re-post it, send me a PM, but I'll be out of circulation now until after the Bank Holiday. B)

Cheers,

Mark

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thanks Chris & Ali for the further input,would he of not been awarded any of the war/victory medals for serving during hostilities ?

regards Neil

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Neddan,

Will do some more digging for you. The 4th RB did not go to South Africa until 1902, landing there on 4/1/02 and were mainly employed on the blockhouse lines, however a fair few of the 4th RB were sent into Mounted Infantry Companies from Ireland to South Africa. You are absolutely correct that the 4th RB were in Malta in 1908 before going to Egypt so it looks like he moved from the 1st to the 4th sometime after the Boer War.

Andy

thanks for the further info Andy, any further info greatly appreciated

cheers Neil

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Chris,

Thanks for going over the 1914-15 Star rolls after our chat today.

Mark,

Not a problem with the re-size I just got a bit lazy, will re-post it tomorrow.

As Chris says, virtually untraceable unless his record survives.

Andy

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thanks Chris & Ali for the further input,would he of not been awarded any of the war/victory medals for serving during hostilities ?

regards Neil

Hi Neil ,

The criteria for medal issue was for service in a theatre of war overseas , all that served only at home received no medals .

So if no medals issued then he would not appear on any medal rolls and that makes him virtually untraceable .

Did you say he re-enlisted at the end of WW1 ? , if so his service papers would be with the Army Records Office and only accessible by proven next of kin . You would need his post war number , if he continued in the Rifle Brigade it would start with 690------- .

My Grandfather carried on after WW1 and I got his ful servcie history from the ARO , some eighteen pages . Did take them a long though , apparently it is a paper search through three miles of records !.

Chris

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Hi Neil ,

The criteria for medal issue was for service in a theatre of war overseas , all that served only at home received no medals .

So if no medals issued then he would not appear on any medal rolls and that makes him virtually untraceable .

Did you say he re-enlisted at the end of WW1 ? , if so his service papers would be with the Army Records Office and only accessible by proven next of kin . You would need his post war number , if he continued in the Rifle Brigade it would start with 690------- .

My Grandfather carried on after WW1 and I got his ful servcie history from the ARO , some eighteen pages . Did take them a long though , apparently it is a paper search through three miles of records !.

Chris

thanks for the info Chris

not sure of his army career after war as only fixed dates i have are his re-enlistment 1915 & a wedding certificate 1919 showing he was in 5th battalion based isle of sheppy,not sure this classified as after war service or was last thing before demob before he found new work.

Neil

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Thanks for posting the pic Andy very interesting.

Especially if my gt grandfather was present and possibly my gt grandmother in crowd watching as that is where she was born to serving member of RA

Neil

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Neil,

Let me know if you would like a full size copy of the picture.

Andy

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Neil,

Let me know if you would like a full size copy of the picture.

Andy

No thats ok Andy

downloaded the file from site.

Thanks again

Neil

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... we seem to think that Minster on Sea, Isle of Sheppey was a training/holding camp 1919 so maybe he was an instructor ...

regards Neil

... yes the 5th along with the 6th were training battalions on Sheppey. ... Due to his age and experience he probably stayed with the 5th as an instructor and didn't go overseas so wouldn't appear on the medal rolls .

Chris

5th and 6th Special Reserve Battalions of the RB's sister regiment, the King's Royal Rifle Corps (KRRC) were also on the Isle of Sheppey. I've transcribed most of their joint entry from the 1916 KRRC Chronicle below. It gives an idea of the day-to-day existence of the units ... but I've mainly done it cos of the wonderful irony of the author ;)

5th & 6th Special Reserve Battalions.
The Special Reserve Battalions of the Regiment remained during 1916 quartered at Sheerness (5th Battalion) and Queensborough (6th Battalion), and carried on with their monotonous and arduous task of furnishing drafts.

The numbers of officers and other ranks who passed through their hands amounted to many thousands, and no one who has not commanded a Reserve Battalion can realize the harassing nature of these duites. In addition to their function of draft-finding these units were also responsible for a considerable area of the Kentish coast, which entailed much unpleasant work, especially during the winter months.

They stuck manfully to their unceasing work. Snowed up with Army orders, Army Council instructions, and many other orders, which after a short and fussy life were soon cancelled, they nevertheless kept serenely on their way, proud in the thought that however unattractive their role might be, the stream which flowed from their Battalions was part of the life blood of the British Armies overseas, without which failure was inevitable."

There's a man who had a lot of time for Whitehall eh?!

Cheers,

Mark

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Regimental state 1-1-15 & 1-1-16. I have cut the other battalions out due to size restraints

post-1871-1180295243.jpg

post-1871-1180295257.jpg

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