anthw Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Hi, I've attached a link to a BBC News story about a recent theft of a memorial from a church in the North East of England. I assume that it has been taken for its scrap value but if it is offered for sale we might be able to find it Thanks Anth http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/6563357.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteWolf Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 This type of thing just sickens me to the core. I could get censored if I actually us the words that sprung into my head as I read the report. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthw Posted 17 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Andy, I know what you mean, I had to rewrite my post a few times to cool my language down. Some people are beyound hope! Anth PS does anyone have a record of the names on this memorial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59165 Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Good question.Is there anyone who's taken a photo from the Boro & could send a copy to the Father at the church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Thats just plain ****ed up, all for scrap value!, Hopefully the names won't be lost. When people start wrecking memorials just for sheer profit, it just shows how greedy and captialist the world had become. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 absolutely sickened by this act, the culprits if found should be publicly shamed . (and more but as per leeds andy i would be censored if i actually said what these people are and deserve)! Heres Cleveland Police's Appeal: 17/04/07 10:30 Stolen war memorial Some time during last night, 16/17th April, the war memorial at the side of All Saints Church in the centre of Middlesbrough was stolen. The large piece of metal, measuring approximately 4 ft x 3 ft commemorates local people who were killed during the two World Wars. Father Glyn Holland from All Saints discovered the theft this morning and has been left devastated. He says “This is a very important piece of history and is the only war memorial in the centre of Middlesbrough which relates to local people. It may never be commemorated again”. Father Holland is also Chaplain to the British Legion and is appealing to anyone in the area who has a record of the names which appear on the memorial. The memorial has been prized off the wall by the thieves and a large hole has been left where it once was displayed. Police have been left sickened by the callous theft and are asking the public for help in tracing those responsible. Anyone with any information is asked to contact Cleveland Police on 01642 326326 or Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Wasn't it Bedworth that lost a bronze Boer War memorial statue of an Imperial Yeoman that weighed about a ton and half. The problem is that they don't just turn up at a local scrappy and weigh it in any more its converted ingots within 24 hours. It is so sad, but perverse as it may seem at least the memorial had some value to the thieves, what is worse is when the memorials with no apparent commercial value are junked in modernisation programmes. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Hallo Gents I fully agree with all the sentiment expressed here by members, about the "scum" who did this, might help if when reporting items like this if the newspaper (both e-type and real) could include a picture of the item. Or dont they have one to hand?? Connaught Stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Hallo Gents might help if when reporting items like this if the newspaper (both e-type and real) could include a picture of the item. Or dont they have one to hand?? Connaught Stranger. Connaught, have trawled the internet for hours and am unable to come up with an image of the Memorial, although there must be one out there somewhere, if i manage to find it i will post it asap. toffo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Might the National Inventory of War Memorials be able to offer any help. There may well be a county co-ordinator (a volunteer) who may have a picture or know of theexistence of one. http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/ Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Kingsthorpe, Northampton lost the statue surmounting the memorial a number of years ago - it was a significant piece of sculpture by a noted sculptor (whose name I forget for the moment) and depicted St George holding sword and shield. Eventually it was replaced with a bronze resin version similar to the original after an extensive fund raising effort by the local WFA and with the assistance of a local sculptor, Olive Wootton. At least the named panels remained. There seems little doubt that the bronze was melted for scrap, but I guess we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Might the National Inventory of War Memorials be able to offer any help. There may well be a county co-ordinator (a volunteer) who may have a picture or know of theexistence of one. http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/ Ian Thanks Ian, The only one they have listed that mentions WW1 is one moved from St.Hildas which was demolished and by the looks of it no records of the memorial exist (will happily be corrected). I will try and contact them to see if anyone has an image we can post see here: http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/server/show/conMe...mUkniwmSearch/1 once again thanks for the link..Toffo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 18 April , 2007 Share Posted 18 April , 2007 Andy, I know what you mean, I had to rewrite my post a few times to cool my language down. Some people are beyound hope! Anth PS does anyone have a record of the names on this memorial? The War Memorials Trust (formerly Friends of War Memorials) may well have a regional volunteer aware of this. Their website: http://www.warmemorials.org/ Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthw Posted 18 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2007 Hi All, Good news, the memorial has been recovered from a nearby scrap dealers. Looks like someone saw the light! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/6568637.stm Anth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthw Posted 18 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2007 Thanks for all your offers of information and help. Thanks Anth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted 18 April , 2007 Share Posted 18 April , 2007 The above picture of a blank space on the wall dosent do much for identification, unless somebody nicks the wall Perhaps when its been repaired somebody from the local authorities could nip along and take a few pictures in case it ever gets nicked again, then we would have some idea what it looks like, in fact all memorials should be photographed and the words recorded for identification in future crimes of this nature. Connaught Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthw Posted 18 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2007 When it's been refitted I'll go along and photograph it myself, just to be on the safe side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobfoster Posted 18 April , 2007 Share Posted 18 April , 2007 Sickening situation but pleased to here that it has been recovered from a scrap yard. On the local news it was reported that there are some volunteer experts - metal workers - engravers etc who are prepared to restore the plate to its original form and refit it. Many thanks to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 19 April , 2007 Share Posted 19 April , 2007 I would suggest that the original plate be kept somewhere safe, but on view (council office/town hall, etc) and that a replica made in another, less valuable material be put in its place on the actual memorial. If the metal has sufficient commercial value it is likely to be a future target.... Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo Posted 20 April , 2007 Share Posted 20 April , 2007 I would suggest that the original plate be kept somewhere safe, but on view (council office/town hall, etc) and that a replica made in another, less valuable material be put in its place on the actual memorial. If the metal has sufficient commercial value it is likely to be a future target.... Ian Ian, I understand where your'e coming from, but i think if originals when returned were replaced with replica's this would probably result in it being damaged as they would realise that it had no commercial value, and them who do carry out this sort of crime would just move onto the next availible target. Anyone caught stealing/defacing memorials of any sort should be publicly shamed, and made to cough up the cost's of repair / replacement. (including any research cost's). Also with regards to removing them into buildings for safe keeping i beleive this would lead to restrictions on individuals wishing to see the memorial / pay their respects. Let's hope this crime remains a rare occurrence and that the memorials if stolen are returned safely. Toffo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 20 April , 2007 Share Posted 20 April , 2007 Ian, I understand where your'e coming from, but i think if originals when returned were replaced with replica's this would probably result in it being damaged as they would realise that it had no commercial value, and them who do carry out this sort of crime would just move onto the next availible target. Anyone caught stealing/defacing memorials of any sort should be publicly shamed, and made to cough up the cost's of repair / replacement. (including any research cost's). Also with regards to removing them into buildings for safe keeping i beleive this would lead to restrictions on individuals wishing to see the memorial / pay their respects. Let's hope this crime remains a rare occurrence and that the memorials if stolen are returned safely. Toffo Toffo On one hand I realise that what I suggested is admitting some form of defeat, but your comment 'move onto the next available target' also confirms what I mentioned - the restored pannel would be just the next available target once more! Let's face it, who is going to stand sentry over the memorial in the future, to prevent further outrage? Those who removed the pannel for personal gain are not 'vandals' in the sense of mindless destroyers, they are thiefs (even though their actions do amount to vandalism). Vandals who deface will do so whatever the material/value of the memorial 'because it is there'. Today the metal of the pannels has enough commercial value, and the criminals have zero respect for the sensibilites of the subject, to keep it as a target for theft. If it was jewellery or other valuables it would be locked away for safety. In this case my suggestion is to: a) put in place a replica pannel, with no loss of readily available names for public viewing; put the original in a safer (but still public) place for safe keeping. I still see it as a solution in today's climate. What would happen if the pannel was (God forbid) stolen again? Ian Edit: The above smilie in my text was not inserted by me. It should read '' (letter bee after ay). I was intending no humour! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 20 April , 2007 Share Posted 20 April , 2007 What I cannot understand is why the local scum did not continue thir normal occupation like car stealing , its got to be more profitable than a 5kg lump of brass. p.s. very pleased that it has been saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo Posted 20 April , 2007 Share Posted 20 April , 2007 What I cannot understand is why the local scum did not continue thir normal occupation like car stealing , its got to be more profitable than a 5kg lump of brass. p.s. very pleased that it has been saved. welshdoc, unfortunately due to massive demands for metal, you would be suprised what value core metal now has, such as copper/lead/brass etc. have to agree though overwhelmed it was saved. toffo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toffo Posted 20 April , 2007 Share Posted 20 April , 2007 Toffo On one hand I realise that what I suggested is admitting some form of defeat, but your comment 'move onto the next available target' also confirms what I mentioned - the restored pannel would be just the next available target once more! Let's face it, who is going to stand sentry over the memorial in the future, to prevent further outrage? Those who removed the pannel for personal gain are not 'vandals' in the sense of mindless destroyers, they are thiefs (even though their actions do amount to vandalism). Vandals who deface will do so whatever the material/value of the memorial 'because it is there'. Today the metal of the pannels has enough commercial value, and the criminals have zero respect for the sensibilites of the subject, to keep it as a target for theft. If it was jewellery or other valuables it would be locked away for safety. In this case my suggestion is to: a) put in place a replica pannel, with no loss of readily available names for public viewing; put the original in a safer (but still public) place for safe keeping. I still see it as a solution in today's climate. What would happen if the pannel was (God forbid) stolen again? Ian Edit: The above smilie in my text was not inserted by me. It should read '' (letter bee after ay). I was intending no humour! Ian Ian, sorry should have made myself a bit clearer, when i said "move onto the next availible target" i was simply implying that once they realised that the plaque had no commercial value it would have already been damaged, and they would move onto the next piece in their pursuit of financial gain. I agree its not feasible to have someone standing "sentry" over such memorials to stop any future theft / damage, but Middlesbrough recently upgraded it's CCTV system at a cost of over £500,000 as well as 4 rapid response CCTV units / 12 covert CCTV units, and a vehicle used for covert surveillance. so maybe they should use it to it's full advantage and protect vulnerable area's,especially now they are aware of the potential risk to monuments. also as said in my original post: Let's hope this crime remains a rare occurrence and that the memorials if stolen are returned safely. regards toffo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthw Posted 21 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2007 Hi all It seems that they may have got the chap that caused all this angst! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/6571689.stm Anth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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