Andrew P Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 Lance-Corporal Harold James Gray who died on the 17/12/17 was born in Balmain New South Wales, and went to the Petersham school in NSW, but some time after moved to Melbourne, where he was working as a hardware salesman before enlisting. According to his next of kin sheet, Harold Gray was a champion amatuer bantam weight boxer who represnted Victoria in 1907/08. When he was killed he was 32 years of age. For his photo see the following link to the Australian War Memorial Website. Gray is the one in the middle leaning on the shovel. sitting at left, back row: Lieutenant (Lt) J O Pitt; Captain A G Campbell DSO. Front row: Lt T W Johnstone MC; Second Lieutenant P Lay MC DCM MM. Standing, left to right: 7150 Lance Corporal (LCpl) H J Gray, resting on shovel (killed in action 18 December 1917); 2936 Sergeant (Sgt) J T Pinchen MM; 2778 LCpl L A Scouller MM, behind Pinchen (killed in action 26 August 1918); 1111 Sgt J R Jorgenson; 6728 Pte R M Cullen. The soldier whose head can be seen top left is unidentified. http://cas.awm.gov.au/pls/PictionPRD1/cas_...&ps_what=screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 Andrew, thats great! I had a look at the National Archives but his record has not been requested digitally so all I got was, his wifes name was Emma and he worked in Melbourne Peter Not Forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 Andrew, just had a closer look at the "shovel" and I think it is his rifle with a cover on it Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 17 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2003 You could be right there Peter. Another intersting thing about the photo is that it shows Percy Lay MC DCM MM who went on to serve in Dunsterforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 I love the personals details, such as which school he went to - and his sporting prowess. Here is the info held by the CWGC: Name: GRAY, HAROLD JAMES Initials: H J Nationality: Australian Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment: Australian Infantry, A.I.F Unit Text: 8th Bn. Age: 32 Date of Death: 17/12/1917 Service No: 7150 Additional information: Son of James T. and Millicent Gray; husband of Emma Gray, of Balmain, Littlewood St., Hampton, Victoria, Australia. Native of Balmain. New South Wales. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: B. 22. Cemetery: SOMER FARM CEMETERY Balmain is a really beautiful suburb in Sydney, built on the harbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 Hi Andrew P If my memory is correct is this not the Battalion at was in ANZACS (TV). Regards Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 17 December , 2003 Share Posted 17 December , 2003 While Harold Gray's documents aren't available online, I thought some people might be interested in seeing the documents of: Pte Patrick (Paddy) William Hoare, who was in the same battalion (8 AIF) and was killed just a few days before Pte Gray. Both Gray and Hoare are also buried next to each other in the same graveyard at Somer Farm. So the descriptions and details given, in Hoare's records, will be similar (if not identical) to 'our' man. Click here to look at the Red Cross Records (7 pages) of Pte Patrick William Hoare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 18 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2003 Hi Annette The 8th Battalion was indeed the battalion that was portryed in the mini series 'Anzacs'. They along with the other 2nd Brigade battalions were recruited from Victoria from August 1914 onwards and saw service from Gallipoli to the Armistice. RT That's very interesting info about Hoare. I had a look in the 8th Battalion history when I got home and the same photo was in that publication though it was enlarged and it definately looked like a rifle Gray was leaning on. It also had the following information. The 8th Battalion's trench had just been raided at night and prisoners taken. The 8th attacked the Germans in the open and retook all but two Australians. "After the Australians returned to their lines just before 6am, Lt Reg Brindsmead led out a patrol to search for two missing Australians, L/Cpl Les Armstrong & Pte James Bell (Both POW). While scouring No Mans Land for their missing cobbers, Brinsmead and L/Cpl Harold Gray were both killed by an enemy sniper" Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 18 December , 2003 Share Posted 18 December , 2003 I notice that 2Lt Brinsmead (from Leopold, Victoria) was awarded the Military Cross. Was the award for this action (if so, was L Cpl Gray nominated for the MM?), or was it from a previous occasion....?? It's a pity that Brinsmead's Red Cross records are not available online.... I also wonder why Gray's body was recovered, and Brinsmead's (apparently) was not - as he is remembered only on the Menin Gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 19 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2003 Hi RT I wondered that also about Brinsmead being commemorated on the Menin Gate, while Gray has a grave. I'm pretty sure that he was awarded the MC for some action in Third Ypres but will endeavour to find out more. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 19 December , 2003 Share Posted 19 December , 2003 The Australian War Memorial's Nominal Roll shows that Harold appears to have enlisted on 25 Oct 1916. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 20 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2003 The 8th Battalion history records that in the attack on the 20th September 1917, Lt Brinsmead took over the company when his OC was wounded and reached all objectives alotted to it. While it doesn't mention any award given I'd say it was a good chance that the MC was for this. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 20 December , 2003 Share Posted 20 December , 2003 And you're correct, Andrew..... A quick look at the LG reveals: From the London Gazette, dated 15th March 1918 2nd Lt. Reginald William Brinsmead, Infy. For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. When his company commander became a casualty in an attack he displayed great skill .and initiative in leading his company to the capture of the final objective. Through his determination and untiring energy the position was consolidated and the defence organised. In the LG, there is mention of Lt Col Horace Clowes Brinsmead, MC 24 AIF. Might they be related....?? By one of those bizarre quirks of fate, on a page of the London Gazette (26th May 1916), which mentioned "Brinsmead," I have just found the notice announcing the death of Captain Sir Charles Seely, one of my Isle of Wight Rifles Officers; this notice has never showed up on a search I have done before - using the crappy LG search engine - so this has made my day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 22 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 22 December , 2003 Hi RT It's great when co-incidences like that happen. In regard to Brinsmead being related to the Lt-Col of the 24th Bn I'll look further into it, but it could be possible as both the 8th & 24th Battalions were recruited from Victoria. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted 22 December , 2003 Share Posted 22 December , 2003 Dear Andrew. You can ask the National Archives of Australia to digitise your relatives service record . It takes about two weeks.You can do it online. So far I have done three realtives in this way RegardsGreg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 23 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 23 December , 2003 Thanks Greg, but no one I've been talking about in this thread is a relative. Plus I'd say the NAA staff are probably quite sick of me putting applications in to get records digitised so I've been giving them a break over Christmas. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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