German trenchmap 1916/1917

[Regulus 1]

Hi,

Can anyone here on the forum help me out with a German trench map of this Ypres area ? This concerning the 3rd Ypres battle for an article I'm preparing. I have the British version, but I'm looking for the German one now, which should mention the following locations normally :

Frezenberg - Lindenhof (Wida V 66) - Schwabenhof - Brandenberg (actually to us known as Bremen Redoubt)

You can also mail me directly at regulusone@skynet.be

Thanks and best from Johan

[mebu]

Johan, there is another tread running which has a German map of Bremen Redoubt, should answer your query, Regards, Peter

[Regulus 1]

Peter,

Thank you very much for pointing me to this map. Unfortunately I'm also looking for the part to the left of it that's just next to it... Do you have it ? The real Frezenberg area.

Best from johan

[mebu]

Johan, is this what you want? there is also a bit to the left showing front line and Verlorenhoek, but I cannot scan larger than A4 and it may be too big for this post anyway, Regards, Peter

[mebu]

As that seemed to work, here's the other half, showing front line.

This is black and white copy: I have the original, in blue and red ink, hand drawn.....but, sadly....it was such a nice map, I framed it and hung it on my study wall. Next time I looked the ink had faded and I now have an almost blank sheet of German paper........obviously the ink was not fast, I have framed British maps and they hold their colour...Regards, Peter

[mebu]

PS you'll find Wida V66 next to the railway line, other side of Swabenhof.

[Regulus 1]

Peter !

Yes ! This is exactly what I was looking for ! Thank you very, very much !

Best from Johan

[jhill]

I hate to derail this very informative thread, but I have been following this one and the "Bremen Redoubt" thread with some little confusion. Your discussion has finally cleared things up a bit for me, but in case any other folks are as confused as I was, let me elucidate:

1. I had been assuming all along that you were talking about BREMEN HOUSE, which was a much discussed fortification in the Zonnebeke area. This is mentioned, for example, in all the war diaries and operational orders of the Canadian operations in October - November, 1917.

2. Unfortunately, you are actually talking about another dugout system a bit to the east. This later was constructed somewhat later and so is not referenced in the October - November documents.

3. BREMEN HOUSE, it seems, was called Brandenburg by the Germans. This was done, perhaps, purely to confuse later generations! :-))

4. BREMEN HOUSE was at location D.26.a.8.5. (or D.26.a.7.4. by some units!). The following is a descriptive entry in the 3rd November, 1917 War Diary of the 4th Canadian Field Ambulance. I am still willing to be corrected if I have still got it all wrong.

4th Canadian Field Ambulance

3rd November, 1917

. . .

BREMEN HOUSE is a large reinforced concrete structure about 90. feet

long by 20 feet wide, about 1/2 mile up the road further than FROST HOUSE. Built on the same

plan as the usual Pill Box, i.e. with very heavy head cover (5 to 6 ft of reinforced concrete),

the main part of the structure being underground, this place had the additional features, of

having two entrances and was of sufficient height inside to allow one to stand with comfort.

There is however no shelter over the doorway. In addition to its use as a Medical Post, the

Artillery and Signals are quartered here.

It is one of the most unhealthy spots on the front, being accurately

registered by the Germans who built it, and constantly under heavy shell fire. Due to this

it was very soon found inadviseable to use the place for anything but a collecting post for

local casualties. At first Ambulance Cars were run the whole way up to BREMEN, but by this

evening the roads were so badly torn up with shells that bit was not possible for cars to come

up; and cases had to be "packed" down to FROST HOUSE.

. . .

[Chris Henschke]

Isn't the discussion about this one?

[jhill]

Ouch. Now I am getting a headache. It is time for me to stand back and wait for the experts to sort it out. I cannot find anything up to the end of 1917 called the "Bremmen Redoubt" (although I may not be looking in the right place. This is a snip from the 1st Cdn. Tunnelling Coy. which is part of the works in the Zonnebeke area, and which was what I thought was roundabout where we were talking.

It seems definitly not BREMEN HOUSE though, despite being right in the area!

[Regulus 1]

BTW, does anyone know which German unit was defending this area on the 20th September 1917 ?

[Chris Henschke]

77 RIR

[Regulus 1]

Now this was really fast ! Thank you very much Chris !