Burniston Barracks, Scarborough

[daggers]

One of my 'interests' trained at this barracks around 1913 when it was a cavalry depot - he went into XX Hussars ('Nobody's Own') and later transferred into MGC (Cavalry).

Can any member provide information on the barracks which I now know was built over not long ago.

[previously posted under 'Benniston Barracks' on the basis of wrong info]

Many thanks

Daggers

[Patrick ODwyer]

Burniston Barracks was at Scalby Mills, Scarborough, and ,as you say is now a housing estate. It was a cavalry depot from c. 1910 and after the war I think Royal Artillery.

[Steven Broomfield]

I did a TA Camp there in 1981. Lovely it was.

[Barry Williams]

Hi Daggers,

One of Catherine Cooksons films which I think was called "The Cinder Path" (WWI drama) was shot at Burniston Barracks. Featured in the film are good shots of the guard room, the squadron office, parade ground and the sergeant's mess. I think most of the buildings were original. I seem to remember the barracks as being very old fashioned. Even the keys for the various door locks were old in design, i.e. heavy and ornate.

Cheers

Barry

[daggers]

Thanks to all three who responded. I had forgotten about my April posting, even after reading a brief reference about Burniston Barracks in a biog of Wilfred Owen I was reading last week.

'My' man was a relative of my wife who may well have seen the Cookson play which I suppose may be out on video/DVD.

Thanks again.

Daggers

[Dragon]

I may be talking about the wrong place, so apologies if so. There is an extract from Bulmer's Directory, 1890, describing barracks north of Scarborough, on our website drillhalls.org. As these premises are Regular Army and therefore outside the scope of the Project, we included only a part of the description for interest.

If this is the place you seek, I can post the rest of the description for you. It's very detailed and mentions some personnel.

Gwyn

[daggers]

Gwyn

Thanks for the extra information, but I was really after the location and I think it unlikely that a young cavalry recruit would get a mention in your material.

Daggers

[Dragon]

My information was about what might have been the location. I was merely giving the full picture of what the directory entry contained. I am not so dim as to think that someone twenty five years later would be mentioned in a 1890 directory.

[Patrick ODwyer]

I can post the rest of the description for you.

Yes please, I would be interested in anything new on this barracks

[Dragon]

Patrick - this may not be the barracks you mean, but it's what we have. I've re-paragraphed it to make it easier to read online.

Scarborough Parish information from Bulmers' 1890.

The Barracks for the Artillery Militia Depot is on the Scarborough and Whitby road, one mile north from the Market Place, and is situated in Throxenby township. It is a square pile of brick building, erected in 1861-2 by the North and East Ridings, and has been rented by the Government since 1877, at a yearly rental of £108.

It consists of fourteen married quarters, two for the first class (staff), and the remainder for sergeants. These are on the north side. On the west side are two large gun sheds. At the east end of the north side are the wash and outhouses. On the east side on the ground floor of the first block is an armoury, with accommodation for 600 stand of arms and accoutrements; following is the cook-house and ablution-room.

Above the armoury is a kit store, with accommodation for 600 kits and clothing. Above the cook-house and ablution-room there are two stores, one used as a tailor's shop and the other as a band-room. Following these is a small gun shed. On the ground floor of the second block are the meat and artillery stores, above which are the paymaster's office, quartermaster's office, and new clothing store. In the south-east bastion is situated the hospital, which consists of surgery, kitchen, bath-room, two ordinary wards, one infectious ward, and outhouses. On the south side, on the ground floor, is the guard-room, prisoners'-room, and three cells. Above these are offices for the commanding officer and adjutant, and one large officers' (assembly) room.

In front of the entrance to the barracks are six guns - two 32-pounders on traversing platforms, and four on standing carriages, two 32-pounders, and two 64-pounders. On the west side of the square are four 32-pounders on standing carriages, and on the east side are two 32-pounders. The militia are not known now by that name, but are designated the "Yorkshire Artillery, Western Division, Royal Artillery."

On the north side of the Artillery Militia Depôt two new blocks have just been built, as an addition in which to quarter the men when they come up, and which will probably soon become a depôt for "Regulars." In each of these blocks there is accommodation for 108 men. At present there are only 37 recruits and two trumpeters in the east block.

The following are the officers of the "Yorks. Artillery, W.D.R.A." Colonel: A.Brooksbank. Lieut.-Colonel Commanding: J. D. Legard. Majors (Honorary): C. F. Fellowes and W. R. Ringrose Voase. Captains: E. C. Brooksbank, B. Haworth-Booth, and S. C. Scrope. Lieutenants: G. F. Harwood, W. E. Fell, H. P. Cundliffe, C. P. Sykes, G. A. St. Quinton, F. Cohen, A. H. Darley, H. D'Arcy Hutton, and R. Marshall. The staff officers are:- Adjutant: S. V. Thornton. Captain and Quarter-Master: W. J. Emby. Medical Officer: Surgeon-Major H. Wright, J.P.

[Patrick ODwyer]

Thanks Dragon

I know Burniston was near Scalby Mills so I'll have to check where it was in relation to Throxenby township. It became a cavalry depot in 1910 but before that, and after 1922ish it was Artillery IIRC.

Many thanks

[Patrick ODwyer]

Just checked on a map. It appears too far over to the West from Scarborough to match the Barracks on Burniston Road. Unless Throxenby stretched that far in ye olden time!

[PhilW]

I grew up in Scarborough and Burniston Barracks is not where Throxenby is. Throxenby is, as you say, further west.

The barracks should really have been called "Burniston Road" Barracks since Burniston is a village 5 miles further North (my Gran and Grandad lived and are buried there)

If you have a look at viaMichelin

http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/int...amp;x=0&y=0

The barracks were to the south of North Cliff Avenue and east of Burniston Road where are now Green Howards Close, Lancers' Court, Cavalry Court and Hussars' Court - the names are a bit of a giveaway!!

If the link doesn't work to show in enough detail zoom in to the east of Scalby. Burniston Road is the A165 and the barracks were to the south of Scalby Mills.

I've never heard of Throxenby Barracks, but on the same map having found site of Burniston Barracks find Cross Lane just to north and over the road, go west along it (it changes to Green Lane) and when it crosses Scalby Road (the Scarborough/Whitby Road referred to in Dragon's Bulmer extract? - I don't know because Burniston Road is also a Scarborough/ Whitby road) it becomes Throxenby Lane at the end of which is Throxenby Hall (currently for sale at £750k

http://www.cundalls.co.uk/property/pdf/brochure687.pdf

- the old home of the Duke of Londesborough). The reference to it being "1 mile North of the Market Place" is a bit odd, because if you go due North of the Market you are in the North Sea!

and Throxenby itself is a tiny hamlet further West still - a couple of farm sbuildings as I remember it.

http://www.british-towns.net/en/level_4_di...asp?GetL3=15440

I can't think of anywhere in the area I knew as Throxenby where this barracks could have been - I suspect that "Throxenby" is an error and that Throxenby Barracks and Burniston Barracks are one and he same.

Surprisingly, there are few references in Jack Binns' (my old History teacher!!) book "History of Scarborough" but on P 333 when describing the German raid on Scarborough in 1914 that ""The 14th King's Hussars at Burniston Barracks wre mustered, issued with 20 rounds of live ammunition each and manned their cliff-top trenchesbut the German gunners ignored them and their quarters". Burniston Barracks obviously streched from Burniston Road to the cliffs - indeed, I remember it having quite extensive sports fields - I think I played both football and cricket there in my youth.

I don't think I have really been much help after all that!!!!

But at least I tried!!

Regards

Phil

[Dragon]

I looked at the old maps website and I could only see one barracks north of Scarborough, and nothing close to Throxenby, which is why I wondered whether the information would be of use. Anyway, I leave the extract with you.

[Patrick ODwyer]

You have been a great help Phil and Dragon. It is quite possible they are the same or linked as the Artillery were at Burniston - more delving in Army Lists and maps - thanks to you both.

[Patrick ODwyer]

I wonder if this is in any way related

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT, 1888.

Orders under Section 57 of the Act, as confirmed by the Local Government Board, of the following County and County Borough Councils—

(28.) North Riding of Yorkshire.—For the conversion of the townships of Scalby and Throxenby into the urban district of Scalby

[PhilW]

The mention of Scalby has reminded me that when I was doing my Dof E award about 40 odd years ago a group of us did .22 and (I think) some .303 target shooting at the TA centre on Coldyhill Lane. There is a possiblity that this lay in the old township area of Throxenby before re-organisation mentioned above.

I can't find many references when Googling but a couple are here

http://www.greenhowards.org.uk/html-files/...orough-2007.htm

http://www2.army.mod.uk/yorkshire_regiment...on_branches.htm

You should be able to find theTA Centre, Coldyhill Lane on multimap or viamichelin etc. It's pretty close to the "Scarborough - Whitby Road" and stands out as 3 large green roofed buildings amid the houses on the North side of the road opposite Coldyhill Lane's junction with Scalby Avenue.

http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/int...amp;x=0&y=0

Phil

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Hi

With regard to Burniston Barracks the attached may be of interest to you.

The card is posted at Scarborough on 14 August 1914 and sent to his parents in Claypath, Durham City by Trooper Jack Ward who was numbered 4942 in the 20th Hussars, his address is given as,

B Squadron, 14th Hussars,

Burniston Cavalry Barracks,

Scarborough.

regards

John

[Patrick ODwyer]

Thanks John

I have the exact same postcard sent by another soldier but with no return address so although I knew it was Scarborough the Burniston link for this group of men is great to confirm. Thank you

Is it addressed 'Dear Father and All?' to Mr W Ward? - any other details in the text of interest?

Kind regards

Patrick

ps. if you ever want to part with it think of me!

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Patrick

The message reads

Dear Father & all at home I am keeping well @ present hoping you are the same the weather is fine here I think in 2 weeks there will be a change yours Jack.

He was renumbered 47292 in the Corps of Hussars. They must be reservists if you check the tunics a number are wearing Boer War ribbons.

I was stationed there in 1970. The R Signals Depot used it as a continuation training camp once a recruit had passed off and was waiting for a place on a trade course they were sent to Burniston to keep them out of the way.

Used to do daft exercises like carry a railway sleeper 30 mile up a disused railway line and sleep out for a couple of nights.

regards

John

[Patrick ODwyer]

Thanks John, all the Reservists passed that way, including my grandfather but I can't make him out in the photo I have . One day maybe

Patrick

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Patrick

slightly off Burniston Barracks but the attached will interest you

The RSM on the right is C J Perman 20th Hussars the football team is 13 Reserve Cavalry Regiment at Colchester.

The sergeant is also 20th Hussars.

The RSM had two sons 10881 L/Cpl F W Perman 20th Hussars who died as a POW in Berlin in September 1914. His brother was Sergeant Arthur Perman M/28155 1st Div Supply Column ASC.

Card was sent to Arthur by his father in march 1915 saying they had won the garrison cup 4- 0

regards

John

[Patrick ODwyer]

Great photo. I have a few like this (repros) but great to have one from the man himself. RSM 14th Hussars in Boer War. Excellent.

[broadtown]

Chaps, A bit late but heres an interesting Hansard bit on the Barracks.

Scarborough Barracks.

HC Deb 30 March 1908 vol 187 cc81-2 81

§ MR. WALTER REA (Scarborough)

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether the Burniston Road barracks at Scarborough which, since the removal of the Royal Garrison Artillery Depôt, have almost ceased to be occupied, are well above the average in suitability, owing not only to their modern construction and healthy situation but to the considerable amount of land adjoining which 82 has been purchased and placed at their disposal by the Corporation of Scarborough; and whether, having regard to those facts and in view of the loss to the State involved in keeping the buildings empty, he will endeavour to devise a plan by which they may be utilised for some special or other purpose which will entail their regular occupation.

§ MR. HALDANE

Under present arrangements it has not been found practicable so far to quarter in Scarborough barracks more than a very small body of men. I am well aware of the advantages of the barracks, and I can assure my hon. friend that the first opportunity will be taken of utilising them, providing that such occupation is consistent with the general scheme of distribution, and the necessity for economy.

Hope thats useful.

Best wishes

Bob

[Patrick ODwyer]

Thanks Bob

Very interesting