Query: British Units at Verdun C1915-16

[TD60]

I notice that he went to Verdun in December '16. I thought it was all over by then.

Presumably he consulted with Mangin, Petain et al as to their tactics.

Not exactly, from august to December frech re take the ground lost from feb. to june.

A new French commander of the Verdun forts, Third Army’s General Charles Mangin, was also appointed, reporting to Nivelle. Taking the offensive Mangin managed to retake Douaumont on 24 October, followed by Fort Vaux on 2 November. Following a rest pause, Mangin renewed his offensive, retaking ground lost since the start of the German attack. Between 15-18 December alone, when the battle ended, the French captured 11,000 prisoners and with them 115 heavy guns. Simply put, Hindenburg saw no point in continuing Falkenhayn’s pointless attacks.

Of course they were attacks on strong points and experience from there could be and was eventually useful to drive the attack on a strong point as Vimy ridge.

So being there in december was not a quiet front !

extract from

http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/verdun.htm

pics

http://images.google.fr/images?ndsp=20&amp...prise+douaumont

[ian turner]

The Wiki article implies that Currie invented the creeping barrage at Vimy. I'd like to see a bit of the evidence for that. I notice that he went to Verdun in December '16. I thought it was all over by then. Presumably he consulted with Mangin, Petain et al as to their tactics.

To give some input on another thread I was recently reading up on the 9th Div at Longueval & Delville Wood in July 1916. They were making use of creeping barrage then.

Ian

[hillgorilla]

Hi

Re the bayonet. it could be a british one. A plausable explanation could be that it was dropped by an AEF soldier. Many of the AEF units served with the BEF in 1918 in the form of training prior to going south, to where their effort is usually remembered. Who is to say that an american soldier did not aquire it and then dropped it when fighting in the area where laffin found it.

Just an idea, may be wrong, but it could be possible.

Hillgorilla

[bob lembke]

Hillgorilla;

Good idea! Much if not most of the equipment the Yanks used was from Allied sources, including, I believe, a good number of British rifles. I would also think that during the war the "Arsenal of Democracy" was making large numbers of Brit-pattern bayonets for the UK, and easily could have continued making them for themselves in 1917. I think that a minority of Yank troops were armed with the Springfield.

Bob Lembke

[Terry_Reeves]

With regard to US units at Verdun. The 1st Gas and Flame Regiment were there in November 1918, along with the 1st Battalion Royal Engineers Special Brigade who had arrived to come under command of the US unit on Armsitice day.

Terry Reeves

[bob lembke]

With regard to US units at Verdun. The 1st Gas and Flame Regiment were there in November 1918, along with the 1st Battalion Royal Engineers Special Brigade who had arrived to come under command of the US unit on Armsitice day.

Terry Reeves

Terry;

Thanks for the lead. By that time (I am not sure of the exact process) Amos Fries, who was largely mentored by Foulkes, I believe, had gotten "Flame" out of the name of the "Gas and Flame Regiment". Anyone who knows of any personal contacts between these two guys please speak up. Both spent a lot of effort (especially Fries) after the war spreading disinformation about flame warfare, but I am not sure about the amount of actual cooperation between them. Both had good reason to belittle the flame weapon. Fries was literally in the pay of the US chemical industry.

Bob Lembke

[Christina Holstein]

I'd agree with the idea of the bayonet being dropped by an AEF soldier. There were definitely no British units at Verdun other than ambulance units.

On the creeping barrage, this was certainly used by the French in the first attempt to retake Fort Douaumont in May 1916. The French records claim that it was invented there by General Nivelle.

Just for information, there are two "English" names in the Ossuary at Verdun: Arthur Exshaw, a member of a Anglo-Irish-French family from the Bordeaux area, who served in the French army and was killed in May 1916 in the French attack in Fort Douaumont, and Samuel Chew, an American ambulance driver, killed on the Left Bank in 1917.

Christina