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Bill Woerlee

Australians in Africa

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SteveE
Can you advise where I can get list of SA Boer War enlistments?

Sue

If he served in one of the SA 'Irregular' Forces locally recruited then you could try this site... http://www.britishmedals.us/kevin/wo127.html. It may be a bit of a pain to have to search each transcription and not all of them have been transcribed yet but you never know your luck. That also assumes that if he did serve during the 2nd Anglo-Boer War it was on the British side ;)

Hope it helps.

Steve

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SBW

Thanks Steve, much appreciated. Pretty sure it would have been for NZs 'home country':-))

Sue

Sue

If he served in one of the SA 'Irregular' Forces locally recruited then you could try this site... http://www.britishmedals.us/kevin/wo127.html. It may be a bit of a pain to have to search each transcription and not all of them have been transcribed yet but you never know your luck. That also assumes that if he did serve during the 2nd Anglo-Boer War it was on the British side ;)

Hope it helps.

Steve

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Waddell

Sue,

Have been watching your entries on this thread. I can't help but noticed that the only Sarich serving in the First AIF was from Greymouth, New Zealand.

See here-

http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=266692

I don't know if he's related to the boys you are looking at but thought I would mention it as it is an uncommon name.

Scott

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SBW

Scott, thanks for your interest and input. There is no known link to AIF Michael Sarich from Greymouth. I would like to know more about him. Waihi had a miner's strike in 1912, a Michael Sarach was sent to jail, many striking miners run out of town. Greymouth is also known as mining area, with affiliations to our own striking miners. Its not impossible, this Michael was from my area. The NZ Sarich family I am looking into are known to have also used SarAch as well as Sarich. There were 8 children, 5 boys. Two in NZEF, one a Tunneller. Two who appeared to be in SA forces, J Sarich and his brother Maro Leopold. It is likely they anglicised their name during WW1, eg Maro Leopold is also known as Mark Leo. Sarach is a name that comes up a few times in German WW1 enlistments. I have checked CWGC, WW1 and other records in NZ, NZ and SA Boer war enlistments to no avail. It sure would be nice to track this one down:-)

Keep any pointers coming:-)

Really appreciate your help

Sue

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bushfighter

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bushfighter
post-20901-1266852214.jpg

Bill
Last year in the Liddle Collection, Leeds University, I came across this photo taken in the Cape Verde Islands.

I believe that the funeral was at Mindelo Cemetery for 15046 Staff Sergeant John Alfred Eric Crawford of the Australian Army Medical Corps.

He probably was on a passing ship.

Harry

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Bill Woerlee

Harry

Thanks for that incredible pic.

"Attempt to snap the Portuguese firing party when an Australian Officer was buried here. (Them wimmin!) Style on the youngster on the left!"

I think you might have correctly identified the man in question. Great work.

Cheers

Bill

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Waddell

Not a soldier I have been researching but noticed this article and thought it worth adding to this thread.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/printArticlePdf/15586607/3?print=n

Allen it seems was a private in the KAR, enlisting August 4th 1914. Can anyone add more?

Scott

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SteveE

Scott

I think the article is a small way off with the unit, it wasn't the King's African Rifles he joined as a Private but the East African Mounted Rifles.

His Medal Index Card shows entitlement only to the 1914/1915 Star. The BWM and Victory Medal that he was also entitled to are not on the card nor can I see another suitable card for the usual 'split' MIC. The card shows he entered theatre 4a (East Africa) on 5th August 1914 as a Private with service number 109 and also that he was Discharged Medically Unfit.

I'll have a look in the EAMR History later today to see what else it adds.

Regards

Steve

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SteveE

Allen is recorded in C. J. Wilson's "The East African Mounted Rifles" as P. de V. Allen and served with B Squadron of the E. A. M. R. from 08/08/1914 to 25/02/1915.

The wounds alluded to in the article were received on 03/11/1914 when he was shot through the ankle at the Battle of Longido.

Steve

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frev

This is a more detailed account of his wounding: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/26938348?searchTerm

Percy de Vere ALLEN was born in 1891 in St Kilda, Vic – son of James de Vere ALLEN & Florence Adeline GURNER

The reason his Brit MIC doesn’t include his other medals, is that they were issued in Australia – as after being invalided home, he joined the AIF in the September of 1915 & served through until 1919.

His Service Record here: http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=3030403

[he also had 3 brothers who served with the AIF]

Interestingly, before returning to Australia he took advantage of the ‘Non-Military Employment Scheme’ from 16/5/19 – 11/8/19 in order to receive instruction in the Swahili Language, at the School of Oriental Studies, Finsbury Circus, London

By 1923 he was back in Kenya, where he married a Melbourne lass in 1924, and they lived in Africa for many years. In 1938 he was the Governor of the Mombasa Gaol, and in 1940-45 he was the Labour Commissioner, Kenya.

Percy died in Oxfordshire in 1971

He certainly is an interesting character Scott (bit like our Lewis Andrews – I’ll get back to you in regard to him soon)…..cheers, Frev

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Waddell

Thanks Steve and Frev for identifying Percy De Vere Allen.

Steve, I think you are right about that story drifting a little on the finer details and appears to be an abbreviated version of the story in Frev's link. Certainly Farwell's description of the battle doesn't mention thousands of casualties, although it does mention the effectiveness of Major Kraut and his forces.

Here is another man with Victorian connections who served and died in Africa worthy of adding to this thread, Captain Norman Douglas Dare-

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/898053/DARE,%20NORMAN%20DOUGLAS

An interesting old thread this, worthy of more research.

Scott

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bushfighter

post-20901-0-11479600-1385633104_thumb.j



Norman Dare turns out to be a very interesting soldier.



At the time of his death he was commanding a force of 200 'Ruga Ruga' irregular troops from the Iringa District of German East Africa (GEA). These men had formerly worked, or been compliant with, the Germans.



When Captain Max Wintgens mounted his break out from south-eastern GEA Dare was ordered in mid-march 1917 to march his troops to Tabora. Accompanying him was another little-known unit, 4th 3rd King's African Rifles (4/3rd KAR), formed from the African Scouts that itself had been recruited from enemy prisoners or deserters. This unit appears in the draft Official History Part II but elsewhere it is designated as 1/6th KAR with a formation date of April and May 1917.



These two units were ordered to 'live off the land' and no doubt consequent rapine and plunder ensued, with difficult disciplinary problems for Dare.



Dare was first buried at Tabora European Cemetery but there are no details of how he died.



Perhaps as the Wintgens break-out continued (Heinrich Naumann, Wintgens' successor after the latter was captured with a very bad illness, got the break-out troops up to the British East Africa border) the former German troops in the Ruga Ruga and 4/3rd KAR became restless. They knew that the Germans would hang them within minutes of their capture. It may be that Norman Dare paid the price of his life whilst attempting to keep his men in order.



I suspect a cover-up. The authorities got in a flap as the Wintgens break-out gained momentum and two hastily-formed and untrained and ill-disciplined units were sent off with a licence to rob the countryside. When things went wrong, as they probably did, then the slate was wiped clean and the two units absorbed into 1/6th KAR or disbanded; Norman was just another casualty of the war. The Belgians then took up the pursuit of the German break-out and all attention was focused on them.



Harry


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Waddell

Thank you Harry.

That is a very interesting story. I came across Norman Dare whilst researching a while back but could not find much information about him. He was a cousin of a Sydney soldier, Arthur John Dare, of the 17th Battalion A.I.F. Arthur John Dare was killed at Pozieres in July 1916. According to his Roll of Honour particulars, filled out by Arthur's father, Lieutenant Colonel Charles Dare who served with the 14th Battalion A.I.F at Gallipoli was another cousin.

Seems that soldiering was in the family.

Scott

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ATM

I don't know if it has been covered here already, didn't see it when I browsed through, but 7th SA Infantry, part of 2nd SA Infantry Brigade in GEA had its D Company composed almost entirely from Australians and New Zealanders resident in SA. Mainly from the Transvaal. The balance of the company was made up of convicts on parole.

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Guest Ian D Clark

Hello Bill,

I was very pleased to see your discussion of Lieut. Buchner-Malcolm - I am undertaking some research into this gentleman, and would welcome the opportunity to make further contact with you. regards Dr Ian. D. Clark.

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Waddell

Ian,

I don't think Bill Woerlee is active anymore on this forum. It might be worth trying to contact him through his Desert Column site.

http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Horse/

He had a small forum going a while back but I can find no trace of it on the internet now.

Scott

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stevebecker

Mate,

Sorry mate Bill has dropped of the face of the earth. Due to family reasons he dropped out of this game.

He has not been heard of for some time and does not look like coming back.

S.B

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Guest Ian D Clark

Thanks Scott - your help is much appreciated. regards Ian

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rksimpson

attachicon.gifWeinholt...couts002.jpg

Bill & Mates, here's one to be proud of:

Lt Col Robert Gordon DSO

Robert Gordon was born in Queensland and educated at the Brisbane Grammar School and the High School, Hobart, Tasmania.

He joined the Queensland Mounted Infantry in 1891, serving in the Tirah Campaign attached to the Gordon Highlanders 1897-98 (MiD, Medal & two clasps).

He went to South Africa with the 1st Queensland Contingent and was transferred to 1st Gordon Highlanders in 1900. By the end of the war he had been severely wounded, received an MiD, a DSO (LG 19 April 1901) and the Queens Medal with six clasps.

Robert Gordon was in Northern Rhodesia during the early days of the Great War, raising the Northern Rhodesian Rifles. He moved to intelligence duties and commanded a party of Northern Rhodesian Scouts that tracked and captured an enemy group of eight Germans and a South African rebel (mounted on five camels and a horse), that was attempting to reach German East Africa from German South West Africa.

Moving to British East Africa in February 1916 Robert became a Remount specialist commanding the Mombasa Remount Landing Depot, the Maktau No 1 Base Remount Depot, and further Remount Depots at Dar Es Salaam, Kilwa and Lindi.

For his Great War Service Robert received two MiDs, was given an OBE in 1918 and created a CMG in 1919.

Hi

Does anyone know what happened to him after WW1, where he lived and what he did and when and where he died? I am doing some research on him and can not find anything on the net.

regards

Robert

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stevebecker

Mates,

Found this bloke?

KEEBLE John Walter 57412 A/Sgt 4 GSR Vic to CTD (04 LHR) 11-18 tos 04 LHR 2-19

(Boer War 1 VMI (32) & Sgt 5 VMR (910) to SSM DCM & MID - for capturing Boers single handed at Rhenoster Kop May 1901)

enlist South African Forces 25-12-15 4th Sth Africian Horse & SASC MT disch 29-1-17 served German East Africa 1915 -1917

Do you have any details on this man or on his units (4th Sth Africian Horse & SASC MT)?

Cheers

S.B

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Waddell

Mates,

Found this bloke?

KEEBLE John Walter 57412 A/Sgt 4 GSR Vic to CTD (04 LHR) 11-18 tos 04 LHR 2-19

(Boer War 1 VMI (32) & Sgt 5 VMR (910) to SSM DCM & MID - for capturing Boers single handed at Rhenoster Kop May 1901)

enlist South African Forces 25-12-15 4th Sth Africian Horse & SASC MT disch 29-1-17 served German East Africa 1915 -1917

Do you have any details on this man or on his units (4th Sth Africian Horse & SASC MT)?

Cheers

S.B

Steve,

This is an old thread I keep coming back to. During a bit of a drift during some research I have come across two other Australians who also served in the South African Service Corps Motorised Transport Section during the war, possibly both Boer War veterans as well.

Frederick Talbot Woods

From the Sydney Morning Herald of the 25th August 1916 (see article below).

Mention is made of Captain Cecil Talbot Woods brother, Fred Woods who fought in South Africa early in the war and had served previously during the Boer War. The Ozboer database gives his details as Frederick Talbot Woods who served initially as 487 Trooper F T Woods with the NSW Bushmen and later as 365 Lance Corporal F T Woods with the 1st Australian Commonwealth Horse. He was wounded at Elands Creek in August 1900.

Amongst correspondence in his brother Cecil’s records are mentions in letters from their mother that Frederick served with the South African Army Service Corps Mechanical Transport. She wrote that he “was with the British in South Africa where the pay is very small”. She later wrote that he served with the Mechanical Transport section. I can find no record of Fred later enlisting in the AIF.

Herbert Watkins

I noticed this soldier 3612 Despatch Rider of Mechanical Transport Section of the South African Army Service Corps who disappeared on the 17th August 1917. I noticed him at the bottom of a page listing soldiers not commemorated by the CWGC on the website of the South African War Graves Project.

http://www.southafricawargraves.org/needtoresearch.htm

They identify him as the son of Mr W Watkins of Ipswich, Queensland.

There is a short correspondence file within the Australian National Archives reporting of Herbert’s missing status and attempt to find his father who reportedly left the Ipswich district five years earlier.

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=6041188

I wonder if Herbert was also a Boer War veteran. There was a Trooper 342 Herbert Watkins from Ipswich, a twenty eight year old shearer, who enlisted on the 5th May 1902 amongst the 7th Australian Commonwealth Horse. He gave his father’s details as A Watkins though.

Definitely a mystery man.

Sorry no details as to the SASC Motor Transport Section, but thought these Australians names should be recorded.

Scott

post-28049-0-03540200-1452256483_thumb.j

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Waddell

Stumbled across another Australian who fell in Africa-

CM/237 Cyclist S.S Wiseman of the South African Motor Cyclists Corps.

Born in Tasmania.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/124706/WISEMAN,%20S%20S

Scott

 

Edit: I suspect that this man was Stephen Sydney Wiseman, born in Hobart 23 Dec 1888. Son of Stephen and Lucy Wiseman.

Edited by Waddell
Further information.

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Waddell

Another Australian!

 

I recently picked up a book about the British in Kenya, titled ‘Red Strangers: The White Tribe of Kenya’ by C.S Nicholls, which has a chapter about the First World War. In a section where the author talks about the raising of the 25th Battalion Royal Fusiliers, she writes “Other recruits were Private Macrae, who had been with Shackleton’s polar expedition, and Synott, the ex-heavyweight champion of Australia”.

 

I have had a search around the web and have concluded that Synnott appears to have been a successful boxer pre-war by the name of Herbert Synnott (or Sinnott).

A colourful story written by a ‘Duke’ Mullins ex-AIF, for the Adelaide mail in 1938 gives some background to the man’s boxing career. It seems that his real name was Daniel Gault and he adopted the name of a successful Victorian era boxer when he took up the sport. The final paragraph of the story concludes with-

 

He joined up in the war with an English unit, and was sent to German West Africa. He contracted fever, and died when repatriated to England. Australians in England turned up in large numbers to his funeral’.

 

Mullin's story is here-

 

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/54814771

 

So he appears to be the right man. Can anyone shed any light upon his service with the unit? Alternatively his date of death?

 

As it was not uncommon for soldiers in that theatre to suffer from tropical diseases, I am wondering if he died during the war years.

 

A search through the CWGC however seems to indicate no Synnott’s, Sinnott’s or Gault’s dying in England at the time.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Scott

 

(An image of Synnott from the BoxRec site below)

Herbert_Synnot.jpg

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