D.I.W

[Aurel Sercu]

I'm asking this on behalf of a friend, who has been puzzled about something for years.

It seems that on French army maps one can sometimes read the abbreviation D.I.W. (I'm not sure about the dots.) He told me there is no doubt that D.I. stands for : Division d'Infanterie. And he is pretty sure that the W in D.I.W. stands for ... British (britannique). Just because these indications on the maps indeed always appear to refer to a British Infantry division.

His question : why for heaven's sake would they use a W for "britannique" ? All the more puzzling since a W is such a un-French letter! Or could that be the reason ? That a W was chosen because it was so un-French, or in other words: British ?

Theories that have been advanced :

Welsh ? (Very unlikely, because these divisions were not Welsh.)

Wilson? And who is Wilson? And why exactly him?

Thanks for any response, on behalf of Roger.

Aurel Sercu

Ypres

www.diggers.be

[Paul Reed]

Curious this one Aurel.

I have looked at the French Official History many times; they have great maps (trench maps with overlays), and having looked at the ones for the operations at Combles on the Somme in September 1916, British divisions are not referred to as D.I.W. - they are simply [insert number] D.I. - but in a different colour to the French ones.

I really can't imagine what the W stood for!

[Aurel Sercu]

Thanks, Paul.

Intriguing indeed. Next time I see Roger (at the Ypres In Flanders Fields Documentation Centre), I'll ask for an example of such a map, scan it and mail it to you. Who knows there might be some detail or so that is relevant with regard to this mysterious and un-French W.

Aurel Sercu

[Aurel Sercu]

In my first message I wondered who "Wilson" was (a possible candidate for the W in D.I.W. on French army maps).

Of course, that must be Sir Henry Wilson. (Actually, it took me less than four seconds to find it on this website, in the Who is Who section. Sorry, Chris.)

And as Sir Henry Wilson was appointed Principal Liaison Officer with French GHQ (Dec 1914 and 1916), I guess this indeed may make him a valuable candidate for the W ?

Aurel Sercu

[Tim Birch]

Aurel

Was the DIW printed on the map or handwritten? If printed I suggest that "Wilson" is most unlikely. Military documents of this nature are unlikely to refer to an individual by name or initial. People are too transient. A document would refer to the job title eg "Liason Officer"

Sorry, but I think this might blow your "Wilson" theory.

Tim

[Aurel Sercu]

Tim,

Printed or handwritten ? I'm not sure, but I think it was handwritten. Right now I can't reach Roger (on behalf of who I asked the question.) But I'll find out as soon as I can. And try to get more details, and a scan.

And actually, I advanced the possibility of "Wilson", though it seems rather unlikely to me too, because that was the only hypothesis that had been put forward, for lack of anything else.

Aurel

[AOK4]

Hello,

I believe it is on printed maps. I remember Roger asked me the same question some time ago. I didn't find the answer since.

Jan

[Aurel Sercu]

Thanks Jan,

Printed or handwritten ? That's for me to learn from Roger. You may be right, however.

Something else. I thought : why not trying Google ? And indeed :

It didn't take more than just a few seconds to find a web page telling me about D.I.W. : " The letter W in the abbreviated unit designation was used by the French army to distinguish British from French units, e.g. 48e DI is the French 48e Division d'Infanterie, while the 48e DIW is the British Infantry Division."

To my horror the title of this page was : French Army Order of Battle 10 May ... 1940 !

Was I in the wrong war ? And on the wrong Discussion Forum ?

Fortunately I discovered a few other websites mentioning this DIW as Division d'Infanterie Britanniques which were clearly referring to the Great War.

But all this of course does not solve the 'What Does the W Stand For' mystery ...

Aurel

[Patrick]

Hi Aurell

Have cross posted this interesting question to histoforum as I thought the French may know more about this , and see

We have a very eloquent answer from Michel Peuch

Suggesting following possibility for Wilson if w stands for Wilson

But it makes good sense to me

Quoting Michel Peuch

qui était Wilson ?

the lieutenant-général Wilson -sir Henry Wilson- commanded the IVe Corps Britannique, which , at the start of 1916, relieved the French troops in Artois .

"On the british side [in the Vimy sector ] there was Lieutenant-General Sir Henry Wilson commanding the IV Corps, who, until recently, had been Sub-Chief of the British General Staff in France and seemingly on the way to one of the highest posts, if not Chief of the Imperial General Staff itself in London. The advent of General Robertson as CIGS and Haig as C-in-C had put paid to that."

Kenneth Macksey, Vimy Ridge 1914-18, The Pan-Ballantine Illustrated History of the First World War, Book N° 6, page 34.

But Michel also suggest

It could be any of the 4828 Wilsons that died during the great war , not counting those that survived it , The Wilson we’re maybe looking for , could very well be for example

The rifleman Alexander Wilson, of the 9th Bn of the Royal Irish Rifles, for witch tomorrow it will be 87 years ago, that he fell on the 17 January on the Somme

Monday 17 january 1916, age 21"

"only son of Edward and Susan Wilson, 47 Mervue Street, Belfast, Ireland"

"buried in Forceville Communal cemetery, Somme, France"

end quoting Michel Peuch

thanks Michel

Patrick

ps: was there not also an usa Wilson minister of war ?

[charlesmessenger]

Sir Henry Wilson was the chief British liaison officer with the French during January-May 1917 and the Permanent British Representative at the Allied Supreme War Council November 1917 - February 1918. If DIW is used on French maps during either of these periods it would explain the reason.

As for May 1940, the Duke of Windsor was a liaison officer to the French.

Charles M

[Paul Reed]

According to Collins French Dictionary there are only 20+ words in the French language which begin with 'W' - so it must be an English word?

Or it means nothing like 'Z Day' or 'D Day'???!!!

[Aurel Sercu]

Thanks for all the replies.

However I am left with this question :

If DIA, DIC, DINA and DIP were used for : Division d'Infanterie d'Afrique, Coloniale, Nord-Africaine and Polonaise, how come that for "Division d'Infanterie Britannique" they did not use the evident abbreviation DIB ? This would have been too simple ?

And being a linguist I am also a bit sceptical about the possibility that this W, which is indeed almost non-existent in French (certainly not bilabial, with the two lips), could be very appropriate because it might be typically British ... For German and Dutch (Flemish) have a W as well. Yet, on second thoughts, a German W has a different pronunciation, and I suppose that Flemish units fought under a French name in the Belgian Army.

Aurel Sercu

[Guest Michael Orr]

I spoke to my former Sandhurst colleague Tony Clayton who has a book about the French Army in the First World War coming out in March. He says that the most common explanation for the 'W' suffix relates to Henry Wilson but the link is pre-war. Wilson as Director of Military Operations 1910-14 was responsible for the staff discussions with the French Army about committing British troops to the continent. The suggestion therefore is that the French staff marked these units on their maps with a 'W' as a basic security device, rather than openly identify them as British formations at a time when any commitment was very sensitive politically. The practice then continued once the war started.

I will have a look at Callwell's biography of Wilson next time i am in the library.

Michael Orr

[Paul Reed]

Do you have a title for Tony Clayton's book? And/or publisher?

[Guest Michael Orr]

Dear Paul,

Tony Clayton's forthcoming book is:

"Paths of Glory - the French Army 1914-18" & the publisher is Cassell.

Best wishes

Michael

[Paul Reed]

Thanks for that - I look forward to it.