SRDjar Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 Hi pals & palettes Has anyone of you out there additional info on Sister Elsie Mabel Gladstone QAIMNS ARRC ? The only snippet I have is that she died of pneumonia on 24/01/1919 aged 32 and rests in Belgrade (Namur) Communal Cem (1.A.5). She is one of only two British female casualties of ww 1 buried in Belgium (the other lady is Staff Nurse Nellie Spindler, also of the QAIMNS - see Lijssenthoek M/C, Pop (16.A.3). Thanks in advance for your replies, pics, &c. SRD jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 Posthumous ARRC ? http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=481075 ps Belgrade was not in Belgium last time I looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 Sorry just could not resist the comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDjar Posted 31 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2007 Very funny, Doc... Actually, Belgrade is a suburb of the town of Namur, southern Belgium. As for the posthumorous award, I haven't a clue ! The CWGC database certainly can't be of any help abouth this (?). Anyway, thanks for yer post. Has Sue, our specialist in this (overlooked) topic, any idea ? Time for me to hit the sack now... See you all tomorrow Good night SRD jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 She is one of only two British female casualties of ww 1 buried in Belgium I have no evidence to contradict this statement, but it seems remarkable that there was apparently only one British female casualty in Belgium in four years of hostilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regatta Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 re Nurses in Belgium I have been told that my Grandmother Sarah Gray and my two great aunts Hilda and Doris Gray were nurses on the hospital ship ELLA. The ELLA was an ex cross channel ferry owned by the Shipping Federation and was taken on by the Admiralty but loaned to the Belgium Government as an hospital ship. My Grandfather Captain J G Gray, the Bristol District Registrar of the Shipping Federation, was the Master of the ELLA. This is the extent of my knowledge and any help as to sources etc would be greatly appreciated. I would appreciate any comments on this information as to its veracity. regards Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 Hi, my comment was based on the fact that the London Gazette announcement was made 6 months after the lady died. On sober reflection (on a Sunday morning), this simply may have been down to the long delays at the end of the war in announcing awards. . Still the award must have been soon before (if not after) her death. gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDjar Posted 1 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2007 Hi, my comment was based on the fact that the London Gazette announcement was made 6 months after the lady died. On sober reflection (on a Sunday morning), this simply may have been down to the long delays at the end of the war in announcing awards. . Still the award must have been soon before (if not after) her death. gareth Morning all I can't remember where I read Ms Gladstone and Spindler were the only British females buried in this country in the Great War (must be in one of the Holts' books or even the CWGC Debt of Honour register... I'll check this again). Be that as it may, this tiny number is amazing indeed but I must admit they are the only such mil. graves I came across on my visits to over 300 Commonwealth sites here (altogether there are 613 churchyards/cemeteries for the two world wars in this little kingdom, many of them with just one headstone or, in some cases, an entire Bomber Command crew). Needless to say the largest concentration is to be found in the old Salient. Thanks for your posts Have a very good day SRD jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 ...it seems remarkable that there was apparently only one British female casualty in Belgium in four years of hostilities. There are several factors that contribute to this: Until after the Armistice [with one tiny exception] there were no British Military Hospitals in Belgium, which meant that all large units, and most of the nursing staff were employed in France. Until the final weeks of the war, when medical units started to move forward, very few of the Casualty Clearing Stations and Field Ambulances that employed nurses were in Belgium. The great care shown to the nurses by the authorities meant that in case of illness, even minor, women in front areas were taken down to one of the sick sisters' hospitals, which were all in France - dying of illness in a CCS was not an option for a nurse. Nursing staff were immediately withdrawn from front areas for short periods in case of severe bombardment. The great majority of nursing staff deaths were of illness [therefore in France] Most of the German bombing affected hospitals [therefore in France]. I have no details of individual nurses who died, my interests being very much what they were doing why they were alive I'm sure Jim will know far more, but the diary of the Matron-in-Chief notes the following: 25 January 1919 Sister E. M. Gladstone Reported to D.G.M.S. that Sister Gladstone is critically ill with pneumonia, and wired Matron-in-Chief, War Office to this effect. Later wired the Matron-in-Chief, War Office and notified the D.G.M.S. that Sister Gladstone died at 2 p.m. on 24/1/19. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDjar Posted 1 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2007 There are several factors that contribute to this: Until after the Armistice [with one tiny exception] there were no British Military Hospitals in Belgium, which meant that all large units, and most of the nursing staff were employed in France. Until the final weeks of the war, when medical units started to move forward, very few of the Casualty Clearing Stations and Field Ambulances that employed nurses were in Belgium. The great care shown to the nurses by the authorities meant that in case of illness, even minor, women in front areas were taken down to one of the sick sisters' hospitals, which were all in France - dying of illness in a CCS was not an option for a nurse. Nursing staff were immediately withdrawn from front areas for short periods in case of severe bombardment. The great majority of nursing staff deaths were of illness [therefore in France] Most of the German bombing affected hospitals [therefore in France]. I have no details of individual nurses who died, my interests being very much what they were doing why they were alive I'm sure Jim will know far more, but the diary of the Matron-in-Chief notes the following: 25 January 1919 Sister E. M. Gladstone Reported to D.G.M.S. that Sister Gladstone is critically ill with pneumonia, and wired Matron-in-Chief, War Office to this effect. Later wired the Matron-in-Chief, War Office and notified the D.G.M.S. that Sister Gladstone died at 2 p.m. on 24/1/19. Sue Thanks for that, Sue. Things are a Thanks for that, Sue. Things are a wee bit clearer now. G'day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 She is on the Scottish National War Memorial in Edinburgh Castle as Details Surname GLADSTONE Firstname Elsie Mabel Service Number Date Death 24/01/1919 Decoration Place of birth Other SNWM roll WOMEN'S SERVICES. Rank Sister Theatre of death Unknown Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDjar Posted 1 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2007 She is on the Scottish National War Memorial in Edinburgh Castle as Details Surname GLADSTONE Firstname Elsie Mabel Service Number Date Death 24/01/1919 Decoration Place of birth Other SNWM roll WOMEN'S SERVICES. Rank Sister Theatre of death Unknown Aye Malcolm Thanks for that, Malcolm. I'm just having a good time listening to 'Highland Cathedral' and other classics... Great music, great people, great single malts... I LOVE SCOTLAND ! Cheers SRD jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 Until after the Armistice [with one tiny exception] there were no British Military Hospitals in Belgium ... For interest, Sue, what was the 'one tiny exception' ? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 Thanks for that, Malcolm. I'm just having a good time listening to 'Highland Cathedral' and other classics... Great music, great people, great single malts... I LOVE SCOTLAND ! Cheers SRD jar Jean, You obviously are extremely intelligent and have great taste. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 For interest, Sue, what was the 'one tiny exception' ? Mick I shall pass that off as my April 1st deliberate mistake, as I was wrong. I knew that No.9 BRCS Hospital had moved prior to the Armistice, and thought they went into Belgium, but on checking I can see that they only went as far as Hazebrouck in September 1918, and didn't cross the border. But I'm sure the Duchess of Sutherland wouldn't mind being referred to as a 'tiny exception.' France 1 - Belgium 0 Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 1 April , 2007 Share Posted 1 April , 2007 She died of pneumonia at 20 Casualty Clearing Station, Charleroi on the 24th January 1919. It is correct that she and Nellie Spindler are the only two Female WW1 serving British casualties buried in Belgium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linge Posted 2 April , 2007 Share Posted 2 April , 2007 Jean Attached is from Guys Hospital Reports - War Memorial Number I'm not sure how reliable the obit is as it says died at 48th CCS, France and buried in France which would appear to be incorrect. Regards Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 2 April , 2007 Share Posted 2 April , 2007 Pam It seems likely to me that the obituary is correct with regards to the CCS. At the time of her death, No.48 CCS [together with No.44] was in Namur, while No.20 was in Charleroi. If she died in Charleroi, then surely she would have been buried there - her burial in Namur seems to indicate that she was working there at the time. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linge Posted 2 April , 2007 Share Posted 2 April , 2007 Sue I profess to have no knowledge of this at all safe to having a copy of the Guy's Hospital Report so was only going from Jim's previous post which said No 20 CCS and was therefore worried the obit could be suspect. You appear to have cleared that up and yes it makes sense that if she had died in Charleroi she would have been buried there so it would appear to be more likely that she was working in Namur at the time of her death. Regards Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 2 April , 2007 Share Posted 2 April , 2007 It's not uncommon to find references to 'in France' when the place concerned is actually in Belgium. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDjar Posted 2 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2007 Sue I profess to have no knowledge of this at all safe to having a copy of the Guy's Hospital Report so was only going from Jim's previous post which said No 20 CCS and was therefore worried the obit could be suspect. You appear to have cleared that up and yes it makes sense that if she had died in Charleroi she would have been buried there so it would appear to be more likely that she was working in Namur at the time of her death. Regards Pam My heartfelt thanks to all who responded and even took the trouble to post a pic ! By Jove, the GWF is really a cracking site and all the data you have provided is a tremoundous help. Beaucoup de thanks. Malcolm, are you kidding or what ? Me missus sez your comments are completely off the mark... Also, could you tell me the date of this year's Edimburgh Tattoo ? (slightly off-topic here ! sorry, Mr. Moderator) Being unable to get there, I'm itching to watch it on box... Thanks in advance. I am, Sir, Your obedient Servant. SRD jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 2 April , 2007 Share Posted 2 April , 2007 This year's Tattoo, which is sold out as usual, is from August 3rd to the 25th. Just to keep you going see http://www.edintattoo.co.uk/ Tuesday 14 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Wednesday 15 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Thursday 16 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Friday 17 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Not sure when it is being shown on TV. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDjar Posted 2 April , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2007 This year's Tattoo, which is sold out as usual, is from August 3rd to the 25th. Just to keep you going see http://www.edintattoo.co.uk/ Tuesday 14 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Wednesday 15 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Thursday 16 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Friday 17 Aug 9.00 TV Recording Not sure when it is being shown on TV. Aye Malcolm Malcolm, thanks for the tip. Long live Scotland. SRD jar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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