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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

13TH Royal Irish Rifles


shancrom

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After visiting the Somme for the 90th anniverary commerations, the hunger for more detailed info has really got me, i am currently reasearching the service history from my locality, mainly County Down Newcastle, Dundrum, Castlewellan in particular, i have read the 36TH Ulster Division History by Cyril Falls, and the Road to the Somme by Philipe Orr, and would appreciate any assitance/guidance from members. My aim is to be able to prepare a presentation to local historical groups in the area.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

I also have an interest in the 13th RIR, but I don't have too much knowledge of information on the subject. Have you seen Desmond's Irish site that he's trying to build?:

_http://www.freewebs.com/ireland1418/index.htm

Regards,

Peter

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My Great Uncle and his friends were in the 13th RIF. Charlie Murland - Captain C Company, his friends were James Davidson, Albert Uprichard and Haughton Smyth. All three were killed on July 1st.

Jerry

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My Great Uncle and his friends were in the 13th RIF. Charlie Murland - Captain C Company, his friends were James Davidson, Albert Uprichard and Haughton Smyth. All three were killed on July 1st.

Jerry

Here is the Army List for the 13th RIR from January 1915.

Mark

post-14045-1178218649.jpg

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Thanks for that, Charlie (C.H. Murland) survived the 1st. July, was seriously wounded and was later brought in that night from the German second line where he was shot, somewhere near the present Mill Road Cemetery. Albert Uprichard was killed near there.

Jerry

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You may be interested in these pics, the landscape shot is of Mill Road Cemetery taken from the Thiepval Road with the old German second line close by.

Jerry

post-8747-1178223316.jpg

post-8747-1178223392.jpg

post-8747-1178223505.jpg

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Here is a picture of Charlie Murland and a cutting from the 'Down Recorder' about his wound.

Jerry

post-8747-1178224173.jpg

post-8747-1178224300.jpg

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http://www.freewebs.com/ballymenaww1/ancresouth1july1916.htm

See above for full KIA list of 13th Btn R Ir Rifles on 1st July. Plus war diary and relevant pics etc.

Hope this is of some help too.

Des

Thanks for assitance, iam only new to this subject, but have learned a lot already, and appreciate all the help.

Shancrom

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You are welcome.

The Btn took awful fatal casualties on July 1. Truly staggering. 242 killed or died of wounds in the immediate aftermath is sobering.

Remember that their 'bayonet strength' going over would have been in the region of 700 officers and men. Maybe 50 more at the outside. Once you get to grips with the fact that the wounded were roughly triple the dead (on average) you will see just what a tragedy it was.

Des

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I 'walked' the attack last week Des - well, as far as I could without upsetting local farmers - I was quite taken aback by the steepness of the terrain, which does not really come across looking at the trench map. Its incredible to think they got to the outskirts of Grandcourt!

Jerry

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Des,

Have you access to more of the war diary of the 13th? My Grandfather was in it as you maybe know already.

Regards,

Peter

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Sorry Pete - just that one day in my possession. National Archive job.

Des

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Pete

I've got the RIF diaries from 4.10.15 until 2.7.16 plus the battalion orders for 1st July etc. You can get the whole lot online if you pay but i'm happy to send you what i've got.

Jerry

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Pete

I've got the RIF diaries from 4.10.15 until 2.7.16 plus the battalion orders for 1st July etc. You can get the whole lot online if you pay but i'm happy to send you what i've got.

Jerry

Thanks for the offer Jerry, I would be most interested - my Grandfather was a Sapper in 'C' company in the 13th. I don't want to cause you a lot of hassle though.

Where can you get them online? I thought, as Des said, that I had to go to the NA.

Regards,

Peter

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Hi,

At one time I used to own the 1914-15 trio of one Sgt. 13-18429 FRAZER DOUGLAS MANN of the 13th RIR.

I didn't know much about his background, but he was born and enlisted in Bangor, Co.Down, and though he may well have been a survivor of the terrible events of 1/7/16, he was killed at Ypres on 16 August 1917 and has no known grave (Tyne Cot Memorial).

I was very privileged to have this nice group in my collection for some years before it was sold off.

LST_164

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Peter,

You are quite correct, I thought the 13th War diaries were online - but on closer examination of the list

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...war-diaries.asp

I see they are not. I'll send you what i've got and next time i'm at Kew I'll look the rest up for you

Jerry

Would appreciatete a copy of the same if possible, i would quite willing to cover any outlay

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You are welcome.

The Btn took awful fatal casualties on July 1. Truly staggering. 242 killed or died of wounds in the immediate aftermath is sobering.

Remember that their 'bayonet strength' going over would have been in the region of 700 officers and men. Maybe 50 more at the outside. Once you get to grips with the fact that the wounded were roughly triple the dead (on average) you will see just what a tragedy it was.

Des

Figures are staggering, i guess there where very few who made it through the 1st untouched or to the end of war without wounds of some sort. i vaguely remember an old gentleman in Newcastle Bob Russell who service in the great war, i guess he was one of the lucky ones he was wounded and taken prisoner, and spent the remainder of the war as POW.Earlier in the string is a list of all officers attached to the 13TH ,would there be a list of other ranks, also what was the make up of the 13th, i.e how many companies etc.

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An excellent breakdown of army structures from top to bottom can be found on the Forum's 'mother' site, the long long trail .. look up to the top of the screen Vast horde of info to delve into.

Btn could number between 900 - 950 men on average, but usually they had a true strength of perhaps 100 less than that due to people on courses, leave, illness etc etc even at the best of times.

HQ coy and then four rifle coys, broken into platoons etc

Check out the LLT , well worth it.

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