bob lembke Posted 21 March , 2007 Share Posted 21 March , 2007 I am helping a Pal with a diary of a Bavarian soldier, in a light mine-thrower detachment in an infantry regiment. He may have served as an observer. He may have observed from balloons or airplanes, as well as from the ground. The period is late 1917 to early 1918, the area the central Western Front, facing the Brits. He mentions some entity like "K. T. K. 14" and "K. T. K. Sud" (South). It is possible that the "T" is actually "I" or "J", probably not. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Could be units, or sectors. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 21 March , 2007 Share Posted 21 March , 2007 Bob Attached is a page or so from the introduction of my forthcoming German Army at Passchendaele If anything about this is not clear when you have read it, get back to me. Jack KTK_explained.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 21 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 March , 2007 Jack; Wonderful! I knew the general drift of this command arraingement; I have mentioned it in posts several times when discussing the unique German command doctrine and arraingements and specifically the wide authority of the CO of the front-line battalion. But I did not know the details, nor the nomenclature, such as K. T. K. The diary I am noodling over is very cryptic, without full sentences, etc.; a day's entry might be four or seven words. Perhaps "K. T. K. 14" or "K. T. K. Sud" added a level of encryption, perhaps set at divisional level, and perhaps changed periodically, whereas stating "K. T. K. II./IR 12." would perhaps give the enemy too much information if a message was intercepted. Thanks for that interesting and valuable explaination. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 21 March , 2007 Share Posted 21 March , 2007 Bob I am glad it was useful. If you get a KTK Sud, there is usually a KTK Nord not far away. It is generally linked to sector widths. If it was necessary to have two KTKs forward in a particular area, it could and did happen. I have never seen a KTK 14, or anything like it, but it is posible, I suppose that within, say, a Corps (or 'Group') sector, there could have been a numbering system to ease comprehension and reduce the risk of reports being misunderstood - but here I am speculating, so do not quote me. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 21 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 March , 2007 Jack; The diary, at different places, refers to "KTK Sud" and "KTK Nord 1" once each, and "KTK 14" a few times. He, a NCO in a mine thrower detachment, who evidently was in observation, seems to have mentioned himself as " M W O ", which to me might be "Minen=Werfer ?????". Observer or Liason? He usually has entries like "Im Stellung beim KTK 14 als M. W. O." He wrote the "M. W." so quickly as it is even not certain that that is what he wrote; sort of a penmanship abbreviation. He probably wrote the phrase 20 times a day. Thanks for your help. The guy is the Adolf Baumeister that "trenchrat" has posted about. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 21 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 March , 2007 "Minen=Werfer=Offizier" ??? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 21 March , 2007 Share Posted 21 March , 2007 Jack Thanks for the explanation of KTK. Interesting to hear about the German structure of command. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 21 March , 2007 Share Posted 21 March , 2007 Bob You are correct MWO would, I suppose, translate today as Mortar Officer - certainly in the British Army. Myrtle I am pleased that you found the explanation useful. It took me some time to work it all out but, having done so, it makes following German descriptions a great deal easier. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted 22 March , 2007 Share Posted 22 March , 2007 An example on a german map (Aisne 1917) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted 22 March , 2007 Share Posted 22 March , 2007 Friedhelm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted 25 March , 2007 Share Posted 25 March , 2007 Jack, What is the book coming out? I'll be in the front of the line to buy it! VR/Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 25 March , 2007 Share Posted 25 March , 2007 Joe, you are too kind. I am pleased to say that the publishers told me that it had actually gone to press last week. The UK publication date is June, but I suspect that it will be available on this side of the pond sometime during April. I do not know the US date, I am afraid, though a message to Pen and Sword might elicit the information. I hope that it meets your expectation when you see it and I look forward to your unvarnished opinion about it. I am in the throes of The German Army on Vimy Ridge 1914 - 1917 right now and am always looking to improve the product. As a small demonstration, some people were unhappy with the maps in the Somme book, so Passchendaele has a good many more. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted 25 March , 2007 Share Posted 25 March , 2007 Jack I'm not kind I'm just honest. unfortunately I was one of the people who did not find the maps nearly as fantastic as the text. However, knowing that you worked with your wife on this,and having my wife as the chief editor, I would be a total idiot to disparage their loveliness or capabilities. Is it possible to get the ISBN? I'm not waiting for the US version -- it takes so long and literally is not worth the wait. God bless. VR/Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 25 March , 2007 Share Posted 25 March , 2007 Joe Title The German Army at Passchendaele ISBN 978 1 84415 564 4. You can certainly get it from Amazon.co.uk in due course. As for the Somme maps, one of the problems was that we prepared several which did not get published. This time I have arranged for them to be embedded in the text and there are sixteen of them (including eyewitness lcoations). Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenchrat Posted 26 March , 2007 Share Posted 26 March , 2007 Jack, What does K.T.K. stand for anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 27 March , 2007 Share Posted 27 March , 2007 Kampftruppenkommandeur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenchrat Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 Hi Egbert thanks for the information. So what would K.T.K. 14 mean? Battle troop commander for the 14th sector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 John If you scroll up to post #2, you can download a full explantion I provided concerning KTK and associated terms. I have checked and it is still there. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenchrat Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 Hi Jack, Thanks for telling me about post 2. I must've just missed seeing the reference to the download. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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