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Remembered Today:

German Unit Abbreviations


bob lembke
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I am helping a Pal with a diary of a Bavarian soldier, in a light mine-thrower detachment in an infantry regiment. He may have served as an observer. He may have observed from balloons or airplanes, as well as from the ground. The period is late 1917 to early 1918, the area the central Western Front, facing the Brits.

He mentions some entity like "K. T. K. 14" and "K. T. K. Sud" (South). It is possible that the "T" is actually "I" or "J", probably not. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Could be units, or sectors.

Bob Lembke

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Jack;

Wonderful! I knew the general drift of this command arraingement; I have mentioned it in posts several times when discussing the unique German command doctrine and arraingements and specifically the wide authority of the CO of the front-line battalion. But I did not know the details, nor the nomenclature, such as K. T. K. The diary I am noodling over is very cryptic, without full sentences, etc.; a day's entry might be four or seven words.

Perhaps "K. T. K. 14" or "K. T. K. Sud" added a level of encryption, perhaps set at divisional level, and perhaps changed periodically, whereas stating "K. T. K. II./IR 12." would perhaps give the enemy too much information if a message was intercepted.

Thanks for that interesting and valuable explaination.

Bob Lembke

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Bob

I am glad it was useful. If you get a KTK Sud, there is usually a KTK Nord not far away. It is generally linked to sector widths. If it was necessary to have two KTKs forward in a particular area, it could and did happen. I have never seen a KTK 14, or anything like it, but it is posible, I suppose that within, say, a Corps (or 'Group') sector, there could have been a numbering system to ease comprehension and reduce the risk of reports being misunderstood - but here I am speculating, so do not quote me.

Jack

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Jack;

The diary, at different places, refers to "KTK Sud" and "KTK Nord 1" once each, and "KTK 14" a few times. He, a NCO in a mine thrower detachment, who evidently was in observation, seems to have mentioned himself as " M W O ", which to me might be "Minen=Werfer ?????". Observer or Liason? He usually has entries like "Im Stellung beim KTK 14 als M. W. O." He wrote the "M. W." so quickly as it is even not certain that that is what he wrote; sort of a penmanship abbreviation. He probably wrote the phrase 20 times a day.

Thanks for your help. The guy is the Adolf Baumeister that "trenchrat" has posted about.

Bob Lembke

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"Minen=Werfer=Offizier" ???

Bob

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Bob

You are correct MWO would, I suppose, translate today as Mortar Officer - certainly in the British Army.

Myrtle

I am pleased that you found the explanation useful. It took me some time to work it all out but, having done so, it makes following German descriptions a great deal easier.

Jack

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Jack,

What is the book coming out? I'll be in the front of the line to buy it!

VR/Joe

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Joe, you are too kind. I am pleased to say that the publishers told me that it had actually gone to press last week. The UK publication date is June, but I suspect that it will be available on this side of the pond sometime during April. I do not know the US date, I am afraid, though a message to Pen and Sword might elicit the information. I hope that it meets your expectation when you see it and I look forward to your unvarnished opinion about it. I am in the throes of The German Army on Vimy Ridge 1914 - 1917 right now and am always looking to improve the product. As a small demonstration, some people were unhappy with the maps in the Somme book, so Passchendaele has a good many more.

Jack

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Jack I'm not kind I'm just honest. unfortunately I was one of the people who did not find the maps nearly as fantastic as the text. However, knowing that you worked with your wife on this,and having my wife as the chief editor, I would be a total idiot to disparage their loveliness or capabilities. Is it possible to get the ISBN? I'm not waiting for the US version -- it takes so long and literally is not worth the wait. God bless.

VR/Joe

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Joe

Title The German Army at Passchendaele ISBN 978 1 84415 564 4. You can certainly get it from Amazon.co.uk in due course. As for the Somme maps, one of the problems was that we prepared several which did not get published. This time I have arranged for them to be embedded in the text and there are sixteen of them (including eyewitness lcoations).

Jack

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John

If you scroll up to post #2, you can download a full explantion I provided concerning KTK and associated terms. I have checked and it is still there.

Jack

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