Gurkha's, Maori's and Indian troops

[The Plummed Goose]

Dear Pals,

I am doing a little research on the "minorities" within the British forces during the Gallipoli campaign.

1. The Zion mule corps : no problem, have sufficient info available.

2. Gurkha's : they are hindu with boedist influences and therefore are to be cremated. I have accounts (and a picture) of 1919 where the remains of Gurkha's were being cremated by the graves commision. Does any of you have an account of cremation DURING the campaign ?? Then also I came across the grave of "punahang limbu" of the 10th Gurkha rifles BURIED in Chunuk Bair cemetery. What does this mean ??? Another religion ?? Muslim or Christian ??

3. Sikhs regiment : again supposed to be cremated. Any accounts on that DURING the campaign ???

4. the mountain batteries : I am confused there. Are these Sikhs (seen some pictures with mountainbattery guys with a turban) or a "mix" of all religions of india ?? The following account by J.L. Beeston (5 months at Anzac) even confuses me more as his account seems like a mix :

a. "for their caste prohibits their taking anything directly from our hands" : Hindu ??

b. "When one was killed, he was wrapped up in a sheet and his comrades carried him shoulder-high to their cemetery, for they had a place set apart for their own deads" : sounds muslim to me and indeed from a map drawn up right after the campaign there was supposedly a small muslim cemetery just above anzac cove in Howitzer gully.

5. Indian mule corps : Beeston states that the divisional Ammunition Column of the Australian & New Zealand Division was composed of Sikhs. But what about the others : I found a few graves of muslim indians of the "indian mule corps" in ariburnu cemetery but they date from 1918. What about the other "mule corpses" ??

thanks in advance for any information on these !!

eric

[The Plummed Goose]

just noticed I forgot the maori's but to my -limited- knowledge most of them had embraced some form of christianity by the end of the 19th century but original ceremonies and rituals where still respected. Is that correct. Would there also be specişal burrial rituals and if so any sign of them in Gallipoli

eric

[Guest Bill Woerlee]

Eric

G'day mate

You will find that Hindu Gurkhas who died at Malta were cremated on a funeral pyre just like at home. I have a pic on one happening - taken in 1915. Otherwise, at Gallipoli, for brevity, they were put into a grave.

Cheers

Bill

[BeppoSapone]

For what it is worth I have seen the graves of both Gurkha and Maori soldiers at Monte Cassino.

Also, lots of Indian graves. I would suspect that an expert would know their religion from their regiment, which can be checked via the CWGC.

I know it is the "wrong war", but I don't suppose religion changed that much in 25 years.

[(nzef)]

Hi,

You are right, by this time most Maori had become Christians. This, however would not have stopped the fallen being treated with reverance by his comrades. I suspect, that when the news reached New Zealand the local iwi would probably have held a Tangi (Burial ceremony). Burials usually occur on Sacred land, so I suspect this accolade may have been given to the cemetries overseas also.

My two cents.

[BeppoSapone]

Hi,

You are right, by this time most Maori had become Christians. This, however would not have stopped the fallen being treated with reverance by his comrades. I suspect, that when the news reached New Zealand the local iwi would probably have held a Tangi (Burial ceremony). Burials usually occur on Sacred land, so I suspect this accolade may have been given to the cemetries overseas also.

My two cents.

There is an account of a Maori party going out to search for their dead in Italy, and of one of the members - who was an officer - warning British troops not to interfere.

[Jeff Pickerd]

Eric,

I have searched through my 8th LHR accounts for any references to the Indian Mule Corps, Mountain Battery and Gurkha's. There is much in the way of dealings with them all, but nothing to the burials or religious customs, as such.

The only man who has left anything of substance is Captain Leslie Fraser Standish Hore, albeit, with his drawings made at the time. He was born in Murree, India, knew and liked the Indians well, but here again I can find nothing he has left to answer this question.

Most Australians would have had no knowledge, or very little, of the religious practices of the Indian and Gurkha troops. Any ceremonies such as a cremation would have been keenly observed, but no man will give an account.

There is also the consideration of the shortage of timber for fuel on Gallipoli. I would find jt highly unlikely that there would have been enough to undertake cremations, and should imagine that in light of this shortage, such practices would have been forbidden.

It will be very interesting to see what information turns up for this subject.

Jeff

[Max]

3. Sikhs regiment : again supposed to be cremated. Any accounts on that DURING the campaign ???

I cannot remember if it was a thread on this forum or one of the books that I have recently read but I recall mention of after the war 6 Indian troops being exhumed and symbolically cremated in Northern France.

Just had a dig around and found this " Also to be found at this site is the Neuve-Chapelle 1939-1945 Cremation Memorial. In 1964 the remains of 8 Indian soldiers (including 2 unidentified) were exhumed from Sarrebourg French Military Cemetery Extension and Cremated. The names of the 6 identified soldiers are engraved on panels at the Neuve Chapelle Memorial, together with the following inscription: 1939 - 1945 IN HONOUR OF THESE SOLDIERS WHO DIED IN CAPTIVITY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE AND WHOSE MORTAL REMAINS WERE COMMITTED TO FIRE. ", so not WW1 http://ww1cemeteries.com/othercemeteries/n...pelleindian.htm

Andy

[stuartd]

Eric, I'm afraid that I can't help you too much but I do know that there's some information on te Gurkhas in Lyn Macdonald's book '1915' and you culd also refer to 'Sepoys in the Trenches: The Indian Corps on the Western Front 1914-15' by Gordon Corrigan. I know that that isn't much help, but I thought I'd offer the little that I do know!

[BeppoSapone]

I cannot remember if it was a thread on this forum or one of the books that I have recently read but I recall mention of after the war 6 Indian troops being exhumed and symbolically cremated in Northern France.

Andy

This reminded me. A lot of wounded Indian soldiers were nursed in Brighton in the early part of WW1. Some of those who died were cremated on the South Downs.

In looking up the Chattri I see that they mention the "rules" for dead Indian troops. Moslems were buried at Woking and the rest burned at Patcham:

http://chattri.com/index.php?Indian_Deaths_At_Brighton

[michaeldr]

Eric,

"In accordance with the requirements

of their faith, most Hindu and Sikh

servicemen who died are

commemorated on special cremation

memorials erected in many of the war

cemeteries, whilst the graves of most

of the Muslim casualties are marked

by headstones. The names of those

servicemen who have no known

grave are inscribed on memorials to

the missing in the main campaign

areas."

from http://www.cwgc.org/admin/files/cwgc_india.pdf

The att picture is of a memorial at Ramleh CWGC Cemetery

to 41 Hindu soldiers who died in the Great War 1914-1918

and is an example of a cremation memorial refered to above

They were cremated and their ashes scatered,

28 at Sarona and 13 at Wilhelma.

When those two cemeteries could no longer be maintained

"some of the earth with which the ashes had been mingled was brought thence and scattered in this place"

Sorry that I cannot find anything specific to Gallipoli

regards

Michael

[michaeldr]

quote: "4. the mountain batteries : I am confused there. Are these Sikhs (seen some pictures with mountainbattery guys with a turban) or a "mix" of all religions of india ?? The following account by J.L. Beeston (5 months at Anzac) even confuses me more as his account seems like a mix :"

per Col Kenneth Fergusson, the son of 'Percussion Sahib' Col Arthur C. Fergusson CMG, DSO

writing of his father's unit 21 (Kohat) Mountain Battery mentions that it, and the 26 (Jacob's) Mountain Battery, were composed of 'Punjabi Musselmans and Sikhs.'

He also notes that these two batteries serve alongside one another today in the Pakistan Army

regards

Michael

[Borden Battery]

Here is a website which may provide you some additional background. Borden Battery

World War I Casualties of Indian Forces Commemorated in France

This simple website presents a long list the fallen soldiers of the Indian Forces by name, military unit, short details on death, family information and by cemetery. In addition, there is a nice selection of photographs interspersed throughout the text. Of note, almost every surname is Singh. [CEF Study Group - June 2006]

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112003/sikharmynames1.htm

[The Plummed Goose]

thanks to all for contributions up till now ... keep them coming.

eric