Orders

[ATM]

Does anybody have a list of orders that could be given between units of the battle fleet or a website which has them on? I am referring to "engage the enemy more closesly" and "attack the enemy's rear" etc.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Orders using flags or wireless?

[joseph]

The Flag codes used pre wireless and still today where developed by Admiral Sir Home Popham who wrote "Telegraphic Signals of Marine Vocabulary," which contained 3,000 signals. Each signal used one of three control flags as a series indicator, followed by combinations of three of Howe's flags (three sets of 1,000 signals). Words not in the code book could be spelled out with single-flag hoists (A-K, with I and J the same flag) and double-flag hoists (L-Z).

Popham's code became known as the Trafalgar Code, an indication that it was considered a success. In 1813 Popham issued a new signal books, extending the range to 6,000 predefined sentences and phrases, and 60,000 words. A better explaination on this link;

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=13...p;lastnode_id=0

Regards Charles

[ATM]

I meant flags sorry.

Thanks for the link Joseph.

[MartH]

The Flag codes used pre wireless and still today where developed by Admiral Sir Home Popham who wrote "Telegraphic Signals of Marine Vocabulary," which contained 3,000 signals.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=13...p;lastnode_id=0

Regards Charles

Hi,

Regret to say, this but Trafalger, was not fought using the Popham code, nor did he develop them, but the main signal book used was the Admiralty: Signals and Fighting Instructions 1799, based upon the Howe Code 1790, issued by Gambier, Mann, and Marsden, plus the sets of ammendments including:Signal 501, "the breaking the line signal", connected with Nelson's memorandum about breaking the line and his battle plans, October 9th 1815. Numerous ammendments were issued by Neslon between 1801/3 and 1805. The Popham code was developed as diplomatic code for ship to embassy communications, of which Nelson had picked up 50 copies on his last stay in England.

The Popham code was used to send "England expects..." but the rest of the battle was fought using the 1799 Signals and Instructions, the chase started with Signal 370 "The Enemy's Ships appear to be getting underway or preparing to leave port", through to the 21st and used for the 3 course corrections before noon on the day, etc ,and of course Nelson's favourite Signal 16 "Engage the Enemy more Closely".

The best reference is "Naval Warefare in the Age of Sail, the evolution of fighting instrusctions 1650-1815" by Brian Tunstall, but editied by Dr Nichcolas Tracy, and the Corbetts books of the subject.

It is often said that the further revisions, including the removal of Signal 16 reduced the Royal Navy aggressive spirit and hindered it.

Charles the website you kindly referenced is not that trustwrothy.

Sorry, regards

Mart

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The Signals Book had been heavily revised since 1815. The process is covered in Gordon, Andrew, 'The rules of the game: Jutland and British naval command, (London, John Murray, 1996). His referencing is usually accurate, so you may find the clue to where copies are kept. Sorry I can't find it quickly. I guess copies are in Portsmouth or Kew.

[MartH]

Hello

If you go to Greenwich you can look at real ones in the library, if you get in!

The Gordon book is easily purchased off the usual internet links.

Regards

Mart