Donny Anderson Posted 23 February , 2007 Share Posted 23 February , 2007 Hi All, Can anyone supply a list of Ranks/Ratings that would have made up a typical WW1 RNR trawler crew? Thanks in advance, Donny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Shaw Posted 23 February , 2007 Share Posted 23 February , 2007 Donny I understand from an answer to a previous question I asked that trawlers had a typical crew of 18 1 commissioned officer 1 leading deck hand 2 enginemen 2 trimmers 1 signalman 8 deckhands Sorry, I missed out 2 deckhands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Shaw Posted 23 February , 2007 Share Posted 23 February , 2007 My apologies...the 2 deckhands I said I issed should read 2 second hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 23 February , 2007 Share Posted 23 February , 2007 Donny, I am not too sure there is a typical Trawler crew, there are several different levels of manning for the trawlers, the level Alickie has given is the compliment for an Admiralty ‘Strath’ Trawler fitted with WT. Without WT the crew went down to 15, hired trawlers and Auxiliary Patrol had a crew more like 11 men and this depending on whether they where Division Leaders or Half Leaders. Have you got a ship in mind? Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrigg Posted 23 February , 2007 Share Posted 23 February , 2007 Thanks Donny, Alickie and Charles. When the Trawler 'St Ives' was sunk by a mine in December 1916 the casualties were an Ordinary Telegraphist and Signaller, both RNVR, 4 deckhands, 1 trimmer, 1 trimmer/cook and 2 enginemen (all RNR). I haven't found a reference to survivors, but from the figures above it looks like at least three were saved, and possibly more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 24 February , 2007 Share Posted 24 February , 2007 Hello For casualties, you missed Temporary LT William A. Carmichael, RNR. For a 325 ton trawler, that could be the lot. All best don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 24 February , 2007 Share Posted 24 February , 2007 That is correct Don. The 11 casualties were the whole crew. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Anderson Posted 24 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 24 February , 2007 Alickie, Dave, Don and David thank you for the replies. Charles, you've been a great help in the past, so if I may i'll pick your brains again. I have two men, my wifes grandfathers, who both served on trawlers at some point. They are, Henry M Falconer TS 6331 RNR and he served on the following trawlers, "Urka", "James Hunniford", "Joseph Barrett" and "Halcyon II". From his service record it would appear he also served in Archangle/North Russia going by the depot ships/dates listed and family stories. The wifes other grandfather is Private William Brazendale PLY15640 RMLI and he served on the trawler "Cuckoo" (see a previous post) attached to the depot ship Royal Arthur between July 1916 and March 1918. Any info would be gratefully received. Once again thanks in advance. Donny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrigg Posted 24 February , 2007 Share Posted 24 February , 2007 Donny - sorry to jump into your thread! Don and David - you've put another piece in the puzzle. THANKS! The telegram sent on 21st Dec, when the St Ives sank, listed the 10 crew I mentioned, and finished with 'remainder of crew saved'. The 10 are all on memorials, five at Plymouth and five at Chatham. Temporary LT William A. Carmichael, RNR is buried in Hull, where his parents lived. Is it safe to assume that he was pulled from the water alive, but died later that day, after the telegram had been sent? Hullheritageprints have pictures available of Cuckoo H309 if this is of any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 25 February , 2007 Share Posted 25 February , 2007 Dave, The ADM record for Carmichael is the same as the rest of the crew - Ship Loss, ie no mention of dying later. The fact that his body was recovered may have led to the confusion regarding survivors, particularly if it was picked up by another ship than the one that reported the deaths. Or it may have been a straight forward cockup by a pen pusher. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Anderson Posted 25 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 25 February , 2007 No problem Dave, and thanks for the tip regarding the photo. Regards, Donny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpinkflamingo Posted 25 February , 2007 Share Posted 25 February , 2007 Hi folks! Youve got me thinking now. My great grandad Henry HARLAND, 547 Hessle Road Hull, (Mate aged 43) was lost with all hands when his steam trawler HALCYON H408 struck a mine off the Butt of Lewis, 19th February 1917. I never ever thought to look into this at all, thinking oh well, he was just off fishing again. Maybe he wasnt........ Any ideas or knowledge bases to take this a step further? The information I have is from Lost Trawlermen of the Port of Hull - Hull CC website, and the only info I have. I think the trawler was registered in Grimsby. Would he get any kind of 'medal' or war service recognition in terms of paperwork I could research? Many thanks Andrae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 25 February , 2007 Share Posted 25 February , 2007 Andrae, He is commemorated on the Tower Hill memorial; http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2887638 And in the book of rememberance at the Hull Maritime Museum, possibly on the St Barnabas Roll of Honour which is now kept at St Martins Church on the Boulavard. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 25 February , 2007 Share Posted 25 February , 2007 Andrae, This site is worth looking at for a bit of background, during WW1 Skippers of fishing boats earned more than RN Admirals. http://www.hulltrawler.net/ Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madpinkflamingo Posted 25 February , 2007 Share Posted 25 February , 2007 Thanks for those, Charles. Being Hull born and bred and all my family being involved in the fishing industry around the East coast of Britain since 1820, Ive accumulated a little knowledge in one way or another about the industry itself, but to my eternal shame never even thought about finding out more about what happened to fishermen during the wars. I suppose what Im wondering now was whether or not G-Grandads trip was a purely fishing trip, or was there more to it? Anyidea where I could find out the full crew list? Maybe that might offer an idea as to what the purpose of the trip was? Would he be classed as a fisherman if he was involved in something else - perhaps enlisted into 'something'? (Regards the money to be made, G-Grandad had 'officially' finished at sea, and bought a shop on Hessle Road, but was persuaded one last time to take the trawler out as Mate. He was really a Skipper, and sailed as Mate as a favour for another Skipper. Sadly, it proved to be one favour too far). Andrae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 25 February , 2007 Share Posted 25 February , 2007 Andrae, If Don (Kin 47) or Davied (Historydavid) see this they may be able to help with casualties from the ship. 43 is young to retire from sea with a skippers ticket!, he would be on that trip as a fisherman, the Halcyon was out fishing and is not as far as I can see registered for anything else. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrigg Posted 26 February , 2007 Share Posted 26 February , 2007 There is a log book for the Halcyon at the National Archives, but there was a Royal Naval gunboat of the same name, so possibly not what you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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