Storm Of Steel

[PBI]

http://www.juenger.org/contents.php

[egbert]

Mick just informed me about another text location where corduroy is translated with "Manchester".

This is indeed a correct translation as in WW1 with German colonial troops their uniform comes with a "Manchester Mantel" (Engl.: Manchester coat) which in fact is a corduroyed brown-yellow coat

[Tommy Atkins]

Kiwis - Otago Rifles. Otago is a Province in New Zealand. I went to the University of Otago Medical School.

Robert

The book (Hoffman) has the Otago Rifles down as South African, I do apologize, again it seems a fair bit has got 'lost in translation'

Egbert, thanks for your help in clearing up the corduroy issue.

[David Filsell]

For what its worth I spoke to Hoffman shortly after his translation of SofS was published. He admitted that his military knowledge was limited, although he is a highly thought of translator. I far prefer the Mottram translation, although I have not undertaken the detailed analysis of military terms, locations etc which other contributors have. Hoffman claimed that the Creighton's German was "patchy" which I find strange in view of the fact that he was aalso responsible for translations of other German Great War accounts including Paul Alverdes splendid books "The Whistlers Room" and "Changed Men"so. Iit would be interesting to know which version of SoS is militarily the more correct. In Germany SoS was published in at least three versions - 1922, 24, 34 - and possibly again in 1964 - the 24 and 34 editions included revisions I am not sure about the 64 version.

[SiegeGunner]

For what its worth I spoke to Hoffman shortly after his translation of SofS was published. He admitted that his military knowledge was limited, although he is a highly thought of translator. I far prefer the Mottram translation, although I have not undertaken the detailed analysis of military terms, locations etc which other contributors have. Hoffman claimed that the Creighton's German was "patchy" which I find strange in view of the fact that he was aalso responsible for translations of other German Great War accounts including Paul Alverdes splendid books "The Whistlers Room" and "Changed Men"so. Iit would be interesting to know which version of SoS is militarily the more correct. In Germany SoS was published in at least three versions - 1922, 24, 34 - and possibly again in 1964 - the 24 and 34 editions included revisions I am not sure about the 64 version.

There are two issues about Hofmann's 'Storm of Steel' — firstly the quality of Hofmann's translation, and secondly his harsh criticism of Basil Creighton's 1929 translation.

Creighton's translation was based on the 1924 German edition, and Hofmann's is based on the version published in Vol 1 of Klett-Cotta's 'Complete Works', which is the text of Jünger's final revision. There are significant and in some cases substantial differences between these two German editions, but there are also many passages where the text is the same in both versions.

As David says, Creighton was an experienced translator — but 'The Storm of Steel' was his first major Great War translation (Copse 125 - 1930, Changed Men - 1930, The Whistler's Room - 1933), and there are mistakes in it. On the whole, though, it is a very good translation into 1920s English of a book in 1920s German, and, very importantly, the military terminology and understanding of the conditions on the Western Front are essentially sound. As a small 'for instance', in a passage where Jünger's unit is moving up to the front line across broken, open country in the dark, the leading man calls out 'Achtung, Draht', which Hofmann translates as 'Watch it, barbed wire', but Creighton said 'Look out : wire!', because he knew that in such terrain 'wire' was as likely, if not more likely, to be a trailing telephone wire.

I never got the opportunity to speak to Hofmann, but I did have an exchange of e-mails with his publishers, in which they were initially grateful for my offer to point out errors - which they believed were confined to the use of military terms - but rapidly became defensive and eventually irate when I also began to identify errors of fact, mistranslations based on lack of understanding of the conditions on the Western Front, instances where the translator 'lost the plot', and numerous out-of-period and out-of-place terms and expressions, many of them Americanisms awkwardly dropped into a text which is otherwise in British English and uses British English spelling. My representations were ultimately ignored completely and the paperback edition was published unchanged.

I therefore think that Hofmann's SoS is a missed opportunity, as it is unlikely that there will be another translation, by a translator better qualified for the job, backed up by an editor and advisers with appropriate knowledge and expertise, for many years to come.

And yes, I am a professional translator.

Mick

[SiegeGunner]

The book (Hoffman) has the Otago Rifles down as South African, I do apologize, again it seems a fair bit has got 'lost in translation'

Jünger's German text says "Im Graben lagen acht tote Deutsche und zwei Engländer mit dem Mützenschild <South-Africa — Otago Rifles>" = "There were eight dead Germans in the trench and two British with <South Africa — Otago Rifles> cap badges", and I think I'm right in saying that the Otago Rifles cap badge carries a South Africa battle honour, so this is actually not a mistake.

Mick

[David Filsell]

Mick

Thanks for your additional information, most interesting. Creighton's remains my favoured translation and I think both the Whistler's Room and Changed Men outstanding. Incidentally there is an even worse case of re-translations; Brian Murdoch's 96 version of All Quiet. In the first para Murdoch he uses in camp (rather than Wheen's "at rest" - very different. He continues by stating that the men are eating bully beef and beans - an British speciality - (rather than beef and haricot beans - standard German field fare in Wheen. I gave up.

[Robert Dunlop]

I think I'm right in saying that the Otago Rifles cap badge carries a South Africa battle honour, so this is actually not a mistake.

You are spot on, Mick. There are some pics of the badge here:

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/nz-inf.htm

Robert

[Tommy Atkins]

You are spot on, Mick. There are some pics of the badge here:

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/nz-inf.htm

Robert

Seems it was more my ignorance than an error on translation.

Oh and Egbert he (Hofmann) does say that Hedge Trench was named after the 'Thawny' hedge it ran through so to be fair it could have been a wild rose hedge.

Also Mick isn't it a translator's duty to adapt the text into the language of the day? I'm not saying change it but, for good or for bad, we do speak differently now.

[SiegeGunner]

QUOTE (Tommy Atkins @ Mar 2 2007, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh and Egbert he (Hofmann) does say that Hedge Trench was named after the 'Thawny' hedge it ran through so to be fair it could have been a wild rose hedge.

The German here is: 'Hineilend, fand ich vor der Barrikade im Heckengraben die formlosen Überreste meines besten Zugführers. .... Uniform- und Wäschefetzen, die ihm der Druck der Explosion vom Leibe gerissen hatte, hingen über ihm im zerhackten Gezweig der Weißdornhecke, die diesem Graben seinen Namen gab.'

'Hurrying there, I found the mangled remains of my best platoon sergeant beside the barricade in the 'Hedge' trench. .... Tattered shreds of his uniform and undergarments, torn from his body by the force of the explosion, hung above him in the shattered branches of the hawthorn hedge that gave this trench its name.' (My translation).

So there's no mistake here either. The 'Hedge' trench (Heckengraben) was named after the hawthorn hedge (Weißdornhecke) that ran along it.

One of the problems with rooting out mistakes in this translation is that many things that look wrong, like the <South Africa Otago Rifles> example, are actually right and many things that look right (or at least plausible) are actually wrong.

Mick

Edited 17 April , 2014 by Siege Gunner

[Martin Feledziak]

I found a picture toady.

I think it does a number of things.

I think it solves a mystery from 90+ years ago.

I think it confirms the story of the two boys in Douchy.

I think it lends good evidence to Jungers observations.

I think the trousers are corduroy German army issue.

http://gottmituns.ne...1/#comment-2911

[billyv]

Interesting thread. I'll have to find that book of Junger.

[Martin Feledziak]

I did get the book from this forums link to Amazon.

But I read it here first. I think most of the book is on the link, sometimes they just give a taster.

http://nazbol.net/library/authors/Ernst%20Junger/Ernst_Junger%20-%20Storm_of_Steel.pdf

[David Filsell]

That's the dodgy Hoffman translation!

[Martin Feledziak]

I am very interested to learn peoples views on Hoffman's book - Has he made stuff up in it or has he just translated what Junger wrote. I ask only because I do not read German and that is the only version I have access to.

Anyone have access to the first translation by Creighton.

When I spotted that picture of the two Douchy smoker boys it was a match for the account in the book. No person told me to look at that picture and no one has linked to those children before. But when I saw it I got a shiver..

I still feel it is right.

I never considered Corduroy as a material for 1915 soldiers. But check out the zoom on the older boys trousers.

Junger said the kids were wearing army castoffs. He also said his buddy was wearing them. (KIUS) He also said that Kius had a camera and was always taking pictures..

unless Hoffman saw this picture before and sneaked the description into the book and then kept quiet about it for 19 years.

That would be a stunt..

I love mysteries….

[David Filsell]

He has mistranslated technical/military terms and displays a lack of knowledge of the war as the Germans understood and saw it.So context is a issue. have the Creighton edition and copies are not rare

[CROONAERT]

I think the trousers are corduroy German army issue.

Not necessarily so. The French army also issued 'ersatz' trousers in corduroy (amongst other materials) from late 1914 through 1915. The French corduroy trouser colour ranged from light (yellowy) brown, through to dark blue and even black, though the commonest examples found were in a medium dark brown.

Dave

(PS... the boy in the cords is also wearing French Army Mle.1912 boots which might reinforce the possibility of his trousers being French army too)

[RobertG]

I understand that the unedited version is to be published in German. No translations are planned.

[David Filsell]

But which 'unedited' version is to be published? There were several published in Germany from shortly after the end of the war the Third Reich period?

More concerning is that Junger's recently published dairies have not been translated, and seem unlikely to be.

[RobertG]

I read it in Spiegel Online:http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-wwi-diary-of-ernst-juenger-newly-published-memoir-recalls-horror-of-western-front-a-726672.html

I found it while browsing around for more information.

[David Filsell]

Robert

This is the diary to which I referred in post 44 I believe.

[Latze]

But which 'unedited' version is to be published? There were several published in Germany from shortly after the end of the war the Third Reich period?

More concerning is that Junger's recently published dairies have not been translated, and seem unlikely to be.

David,

there is not only the 'original diary' but also a critical edition of "In Stahlgewittern" available in German now. It contains all the variants of the text from the first to the last edition. It is very nicely done with color coded text but rather expensive...

regards

Matt

[David Filsell]

Matt

Thanks for that - so as well as the various separate editions, a copy of the diary and a single volume showing all the all the changes made edition by edition. Have I got that right? Personally I'd be delighted just to see the original diary translated into English.

[RobertG]

My thinking was straight from hell I guess. I did not realize so many reprints and variations existed. Sorry for the error. I was pretty amazed with his book however.

[RobertG]

I did make a couple or observations that were very enlightening to me at least. After reading 'Storm of Steel' translated by Michael Hoffmann, I turned around and read 'Artillery in the Great War' by Paul Strong. I found it followed Junger's descriptions on a year by year basis of how tactics changed in conjunction with Junger's description in the trenches. Strong describes from the onset the difficulties faced by junior officers pleading for changes in tactics with their superiors who still believed the mounted charge would be effective. It covers the advancement in artillery itself plus the shortages faced and errors made by all armies involved. It opened up, for me, a whole new outlook on the overall war on all fronts.