Hand Grenade

[Max Poilu]

And a close up of the fuze assembly (percussion cap holder, Bickford cord and detonator):

[Max Poilu]

Here is another showing a range - the cutaway next to another No.5, assorted inner assemblies from Mills that hold the detonator and fuze/arming assembly and various baseplugs.

[Simon R]

A more complete answer you couldn't ask for!

[auchonvillerssomme]

heres a completer answer.

http://www.inert-ord.net/brit/mills/grenade-delay.swf

click on the pin

Mick

[Mat McLachlan]

Forgive me if this has been covered in an earlier post, but in answer to the query about 'ambushing' someone by releasing the lever and holding on to the grenade before throwing it, my understanding is that this was a pretty common practice among US troops in WWII. They referred to it as 'cooking' the grenade. If you watch the Carentan episode of Band of Brothers you will see Lt Welsh cook a grenade as he runs towards an MG42 position in a house, with the effect that it explodes as soon as he lobs it through the window, giving the unfortunate Germans no time to take evasive action. Nasty stuff.

Not sure how this would apply to the rather less stable WWI Mills grenade - any volunteers to go and try the experiment first hand?

[auchonvillerssomme]

If you watch the Carentan episode of Band of Brothers you will see Lt Welsh cook a grenade as he runs towards an MG42 position in a house,

ahh...its telly, must be true then.

Mick

[Neil Mackenzie]

The dangers of incorrect handling of grenades was illustrated by the death of 2 Lt Lyulph Stansfeld-Smith killed accidentally at 2.30pm on 13 June 1915 while giving instruction on various types of hand grenade to 16 platoon of 1st Bn Wiltshire Regiment.

Witnesses to the Court of Inquiry said that while demonstrating the use of the Lyddite grenade he:-

- took out the saftey key;

- removed the cap;

- put in a 'dummy detonator';

- tried to put the top on again and hit the cap with his hand;

Needless to say the 'dummy detonator' was no such thing and he was killed and a number of others wounded. The O/C of the battalion said Lyulph was experienced in grenade handling and instruction so must have believed the detonator was a dummy.

Did the Lyddite grenade differ much from those already pictured in this thread?

Thanks.

Neil

[Gunner Bailey]

quote name='walrus' date='Feb 16 2007, 03:51 PM' post='624136']

Most has been already said on this subject. I can only add

Anyone trying the Hollywood pull-the-pin-with-your-teeth trick should ensure they have a set of spare dentures handy.

The pins must have been stiff* as some bombers were issued with a small, blunt, 'T' handled hook** (like a miniature bale hook) to allow easier withdrawl of the pin

Tom the Walrus

* Probably the ends of the pins slightly slpayed for safety in transport

** Made from a single piece of steel rod

Here's a photo. Repro one only (wish I had an original).

Gunner Bailey

[dycer]

Just found this from an old soldier's laconic view

Embarkation

"After a few weeks at Plymouth,we at last got orders for overseas.

We had been put through our paces,learning to throw dummy bombs-old tin cans loaded with stones.The sergeant-major egged us on saying there were bound to be some cricketers among us,and some of the lads who wre keen to show their prowess did some wonderfully accurate overhand bowling.Poor lads.Their keenness in many cases proved their undoing,as they were spotted and duly noted for bombing parties of the future and many of them who distinguished themselves in these early days,were not long after extinguished in the Somme."

George

[truthergw]

Just found this from an old soldier's laconic view

Embarkation

"After a few weeks at Plymouth,we at last got orders for overseas.

We had been put through our paces,learning to throw dummy bombs-old tin cans loaded with stones.The sergeant-major egged us on saying there were bound to be some cricketers among us,and some of the lads who wre keen to show their prowess did some wonderfully accurate overhand bowling.Poor lads.Their keenness in many cases proved their undoing,as they were spotted and duly noted for bombing parties of the future and many of them who distinguished themselves in these early days,were not long after extinguished in the Somme."

George

NEVER volunteer George

I reserve a bit of sympathy for the bayonet men in a bombing party.

[dycer]

Tom,

I'm not that daft I'm quoting from a pamphlet I bought in a Bookshop in Cupar in the 1960's.

His view of Bayonet fighting

"We also had a very ferocious,blood-thirsty sergeant instructor who had never seen a Hun,whose duty it was to take bayonet exercise.This consisted in running pell-mell at the foe,in this instance sacks of straw dangling from a cross beam,and sticking them in your stride.

Woe betide the man who missed the mark,and found himself up against the sack."Dammit".the sergeant would yell,"I want you to kill 'em,not cuddle 'em.""

George

p.s. Mods-Sorry for going off topic-it's Tom's fault and Tom-Happy Birthday

[squirrel]

Sure I've seen a reference somewhere to soldiers easing the pins on grenades before a battle to ensure there are no problems when they need to use them. Can't remember where I've seen it though.

[Max Poilu]

The dangers of incorrect handling of grenades was illustrated by the death of 2 Lt Lyulph Stansfeld-Smith killed accidentally at 2.30pm on 13 June 1915 while giving instruction on various types of hand grenade to 16 platoon of 1st Bn Wiltshire Regiment.

Witnesses to the Court of Inquiry said that while demonstrating the use of the Lyddite grenade he:-

- took out the saftey key;

- removed the cap;

- put in a 'dummy detonator';

- tried to put the top on again and hit the cap with his hand;

Needless to say the 'dummy detonator' was no such thing and he was killed and a number of others wounded. The O/C of the battalion said Lyulph was experienced in grenade handling and instruction so must have believed the detonator was a dummy.

Did the Lyddite grenade differ much from those already pictured in this thread?

Thanks.

Neil

Lyddite is an explosive (it's a solidified version of Picric Acid - turns your hands yellow as anyone who has washed out an old Stokes will know) - from the description and date this sounds like one of the emergency pattern grenades (see my post/links above). Many of these were percussion grenades and far more dangerous in use than a Mills etc. A percussion grenade is initiated by striking (on a hard surface or utilising a friction fuze) before throwing - in contrast a Mills (when used properly) does not initiate until it has been thrown and left the hand. It is an automatic lighting grenade.

[Edit] Correction - ignore that emergency pattern bit - the grenade described is a No.1 MkI - the first (and only) grenade that the British Army entered the war with. Plenty of stories of these being thrown without sufficient clearance behind, the grenade hitting the rear of the trench and detonating immediately...

Very dangerous and originally intended for use by well trained specialists only.

This is a MkIII - basically the same but an 'economy' version with simplified construction and a shorter handle:

[kmad]

Hi Max

In your post No. 27 where you have all the pictures of the grenades i see there are a few egg grenades.

I picked one of these up a few yeas ago for 3 euro i believe (hope this is an ok price ). I always persumed the fuse was the wrong one just inserted to sell, As a lot of thread was left exposed i.e. it was not screw in fully and when i tried i found it would not go in any more and i did not want to force it, the grenade i have has the roughly knurled ring around the centre . But i notice the egg in the middle (without the knurled ring) of the picture is the same with a partialy inserted fuse. My question is have i got the real deal or a mish mash of 2 different types. If this was the way they were issued why have the exposed thread? also on my example there is no wire, so did this come away when you pulled the wire along the friction igniter

I have read over this and hope it is semi understandable sorry if not so

Thanks

Ken

[Max Poilu]

Hi Ken,

There were two versions of the 1917 German Egg grenade, the rarer smooth body early one and the later model with the knurled ring added to aid grip. Beware a later model with ground off ring masquerading as an early version.

Most grenades you find for sale on ebay or at French fairs are 'bitsas' - and fuzes tend to get muddled. There were three models of fuze, the common 1915 pull wire friction lighter. The 1916 ball and chain (or string) pull fuze and the rare 1917 percussion lighter (not shown). The top left Egg has a transit plug fitted.

The friction wire fuze is the most common - this was shared with the Kugel grenades but I believe the Kugel ones were longer, which may be why they never fit properly? The wire is pulled and initiates a friction compound within the fuze body - the wire is lost in use.

[kmad]

Max

thanks again and i have to complement you on such good descriptions and photographs it realy makes the whole thing so clear

Regards

ken

[Neil Mackenzie]

Max.

Thanks for the picture and the explanation.

Neil

[Max Poilu]

Ken, Neil - my pleasure, thank you.

[Mat McLachlan]

ahh...its telly, must be true then.

Mick

Gee, you've developed quite the acid tongue Mick. I didn't realise there was a hierarchy when it comes to grenade discussions. Forgive the intrusion...