Value on Medal groups

[Joe Sweeney]

Since there seems to be a great many medal collectors on this forum I'd like to ask a few questions on collecting medals and their values.

I've read most threads on medals with interest and have followed the post on the break-up of groups. I too think what belongs together should stay together.

I do not collect medal groups although a few have found there way into my collection.

I do collect British/Canadian OR uniforms and have for over 20 years. When collecting ORs uniform groups a problem always faced by those of us who do is that it is easier to sell the parts of a group then the entire group. The sum of the parts is more often than not going to be higher than the set alone. Few collectors could afford the uniform group that may include Cap, Jacket, Trousers, ankle boots. However, break the set down into its parts and the market opens up. Your more likely to sell all items at premium prices far faster. Bottomline, is complete surviving sets rarely survive intact unless you are lucky, very fast in following leads, or established a reputation for buying whole sets (ie you will be tracked down by dealers and collectors wanting to deal)

This is an unfortunate practice of, I think, all dealers and even most collectors. I've known of many good sets that have been purchased and broken up in this manner. The value of the history of the objects together and that of the owner seems to be lost in a grope to accumalate things. Luckily I haven't had to do this, but have acquired parts of broken up sets.

Is this trend happening now with medal groups?

I would think that the nature of the medal group would mean that the value of the group to be greater than the individual parts? Or is this now changing?

I once witnessed (off topic) about 20 years ago a patch collector buy an American Jump jacket from an 82nd Div (Sicily) Veteran. Only to cut the patches off and sell the jacket to a dealer. This is justifiable homicide isn't it?

Are there collectors of medals who only specialize in one type of the medal ? Collectors who would not hessitate to buy a group pull the MM or 14 14/15 Star out and sell the rest.

Joe Sweeney

[Alan Lines]

Joe

I've never come across people who collect one particular medal as far as WW1 general service ones are concerned although I'm sure they are out there. Due to cost it would not make sense to say buy a trio and sell on two of the medals. There are several people who concentrate on Death Plaques and Memorial Crosses though.

[Guest Jeff Floyd]

Joe,

In my experience, even the specialists in one medal or campaign (e.g., Crimea) do not break up groups. Even the type collectors who have no interest in the recipients of the medals in their collections will not split up a group, but will happily buy part of a group that is being split. I know one collector who collects single WWI Victory Medals by unit. He only wants Victory Medals, not pairs or trios.

The value of a medal group lies not in the individual medals' book values, but in the span of the recipient's career.

It's always unfortunately to see even the most common group split up. Often the medals represent the only tangible mark of the recipient's place in history, no matter how small.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Joe,

Unfortunately there is at least one regular eBayer (identity to remain secret) who collects only 14/15 Stars and will break up a group to enhance his collection.

In my collection I do have some singles and often wonder where the others have gone - probably easy to guess in the case of a missing British War Medal, but where you have just the MM who knows!

I suspect the majority of collectors are aware of the morals of breaking items up, unfortunately some dealers, in private, will do it to make a quick buck. There are some instances however where breaking up large collections is the only way to shift them. For example. A mate of mine purchased the entire militaira content of a house clearence, from memory this included two pairs, a box of 5 WW2 campaign medals, a separate defence medal, an ARP helmet, a Japanese officers sword (WW2) and various bits of ephemera, some annotated some not. Right so what to do with it all. It was obvious he had a father/brother and son set representing 2 lots of service on the Western Front (I was retained to do the research) plus WW2 service in Burma/Pacific. There was no provenance for the ARP helemt or single defence medal at all. The problem was the person who would buy the sword would probably not want or have no interest in the medals. In the end he sold the collection as 5 lots:

1. Sword

2. WW2 Medals

3. 2 WW1 Pairs

4. ARP Helmet

5. Defence Medal

Perhaps 2 & 3 should have been sold as a set but lets face it, most WW2 medal sets are broken up by dealers anyway, unless they include a gallantry medal. Anyway I can see why he did it and agreed it was the best way to take things forward.

There is a fine line between running a business and doing the 'right' thing.

Ian

[Terry]

I obviously prefer complete groups, for the CEF or the 1914 BEF. That said, if a single 1914 Star pops up at a reasonable price, or a nice CEF 14-15 Star to a unit I don't have, I will go for it.

I recently picked up a 14-15 Star to HMCS Rainbow on ebay. I know I will probably never find the other medals, but stars to the Royal Canadian Navy are so rare I had to bid on it. A check of Ted Wigney's book also confirmed that the fellow was a casualty (drowned in 1917) so that made the hundred dollars spent even more of a bargain. This case was also a perfect example of a seller not listing an item to his best advantage. Another Rainbow star sold for over $200 US, but the difference was that the one I won was only listed as "1914-15 Star" so many prospective bidders probably didn't even bother to check it out.

I think everyone on the site would agree that breaking up a group is terrible. I have to admit, however, that I don't have the same affection for WW2 groups. The lack of a name seems to take away so much from a group.

[David_Bluestein]

I obviously prefer complete groups, for the CEF or the 1914 BEF. That said, if a single 1914 Star pops up at a reasonable price, or a nice CEF 14-15 Star to a unit I don't have, I will go for it.

I recently picked up a 14-15 Star to HMCS Rainbow on ebay. I know I will probably never find the other medals, but stars to the Royal Canadian Navy are so rare I had to bid on it. A check of Ted Wigney's book also confirmed that the fellow was a casualty (drowned in 1917) so that made the hundred dollars spent even more of a bargain. This case was also a perfect example of a seller not listing an item to his best advantage. Another Rainbow star sold for over $200 US, but the difference was that the one I won was only listed as "1914-15 Star" so many prospective bidders probably didn't even bother to check it out.

I think everyone on the site would agree that breaking up a group is terrible. I have to admit, however, that I don't have the same affection for WW2 groups. The lack of a name seems to take away so much from a group.

Good score Terry,

Rare today to find people not checking medals for KIA/DOW, in light of the ease of the internet.

Five and ten years ago, casualties were an easy score, and largely unresearched.

Oh well...times have changed

David

[Guest Jeff Floyd]

Good find Terry.

I think that anyone who believes that breaking up a group will enhance his collection needs a quick course in economics.

If I collected on 14-15 Stars, I would hope that I would enough sense to keep all those extraneous BWMs and Victory Medals nearby. When it comes time to dispose of the collection (and that time will come), there is scant hope that you'll find another 14-15 Star collector. Most of the general WWI collectors will be reluctant to take on the task on reuniting so many broken groups.

Let's face it, most 14-15 Star recipients went on the lead lives of relative obscurity -- known in their families but not the subjects of chapters in the history books. The humble trio is often the sole mark of that man's passage through life and it is such a shame to break up the group to "enhance" a collection. It's a failure of stewardship by the collector.

Enough of that soapbox.

Jeff Floyd

[David_Bluestein]

I have made comment on splitters before, so I wont bore you with my views again; Only to say that I find the practice abhorrent and deeply insulting to the memory of the soldier the medals commemorate. I do have some singles in my collection, and always feel broken hearted that the rest of the group is lost, possibly forever.

[Guest Pete Wood]

I'm not a medal collector, so I hope this does not come across as too dumb a question, but could not medal collectors start a register to say who has what medals belonging to which servicemen (and women)....??

Perhaps there is such a register already...??

[Conor Dodd]

I'm not a medal collector, so I hope this does not come across as too dumb a question, but could not medal collectors start a register to say who has what medals belonging to which servicemen (and women)....??

Perhaps there is such a register already...??

As far as I know there is no such register and you would encounter a lot of problems putting a full one together the one that springs to my mind is that a lot of collectors don't want to say what they have.

Conor