Battlefield apprenticeship?

[trenchwalker]

i have just got back from my careers adviser as you do.

there they are all the other wanting to be teachers ,firemen,doctors and footballer which is simple enough for the adviser but when they come to me they really are stumped.

But have been ask by them to ask you lot this

is there a battlefield tour guide apprentaship?

there probily aint but its worth a try .

mart

[trenchwalker]

just to add have sent off all my cover letter to all the jobs forr my work experiance.

[Hedley Malloch]

Trench;

I would not have thought so; it's too narrow for vocational training. And is it a good idea to be this specialised so young? I hate to say this to you, Trench, but you know, ummm, ... you might not like it when you really get to know it. Most good guides seem to have done something else in a related field (Army, studied History at Uni, tourism) and then moved into battlefield guiding. That way they have something else to fall back on if it doesn't work out.

Another point is that I would be very surprised if anyone makes a full-time living at it. It is seasonal work, there is loads of competition (some people are prepared to do it for free) and consumers are price sensitive. So a belt and braces approach is called for.

Look at a related field which has a recognised training programme leading to a NVQ. These include galleries and museums; tourism and leisure; hotel management. Get qualified, build up your networks and then branch out.

Best of luck

[trenchwalker]

Look at a related field which has a recognised training programme leading to a NVQ. These include galleries and museums; tourism and leisure; hotel management.

im already taking a gnvq in tourism and leasure .

i know about all this but its just worth a try.

[Fleur]

Honey,

good luck to you if you can get a career as a tour guide off the ground.

But I think that th others are right in so far as it would be advisabel (as well as finacialy rewarding) to perhaps go to battle field tours at a later point in your life, after having worked and built up a litle pile of money on which to live. Tour guides make terrible money from what I have been told which is why very many of them have 'proper jobs' too or businesses in which they can incorporate their love of the subject by running guest houses, B&B's, book shops and the such like.

My best advice to you would be ....... and this is so boring and sensible that the fact that it is coming from me frightens the pants off me!!

Carry on with your GNVQ .... but also think about University too. A degree will open a great many doors to you that are other wise shut career wise, trust me, I know and am now in my final year with the Open University at 31!

Perhaps you could approach the IWM and ask them about modern apprenticships? This will give you excellent credentials when you do come to set yourself up as a tour guide.

Fleur *acting far too grown and will now stop it!*

[trenchwalker]

aye aye will do fluer.

i understand where you are all coming and cheers for the advice will carry on in all i am doing now.

cheers mart.

fluer you were acting grown up my god

[Guest Pete Wood]

Trench, I would also add my tuppence-worth. I hope what I say next will be taken in the right way

First impressions really count.

You have been incredibly open about the fact that you are dyslexic. It is, therefore, really important that you spell-check all your letters before you send them off to the dozens of places where you hope to gain employment.

Get someone to read and double-check all your letters, before sending them. Remember that whoever reads your letter, probably knows nothing about you - or your enthusiasm for history - and will base their initial decision as to an interview, on that letter.

Names are really important, too. Nothing is guarenteed more to upset someone if you spell their name wrong. So, for example, look at your pal's name: Fleur. It is French for flower - and it's a beautiful name. But you always spell it Fluer, getting the letters mixed up. Now we all know Fleur is a lovely lass who knows you and won't take offence, but if you get the name of the Imperial War Museum's personel director wrong, it could count against you.

Attention to detail is vital. I know how upset you would get if someone said that Britain's biggest disaster took place on 1st July 1917.

I hope you won't think I am being a prat. I think I speak for a lot of people, on this forum, who really want you to succeed in your chosen career. If someone asks you a question, just take a few seconds to think about your reply. Remember that people will always remember mistakes, so try to make as few of them as possible.

Be courteous, of smart appearance, and take a little time to prepare for any interviews. Think about what someone like the Imperial War Museum wants from their staff: the ability to deal with members of the public, good telephone manner etc.

Try and find someone, that you know, who is in charge of a company (it doesn't have to have a miltary connection) and ask them if they will give you a mock interview for a job. Ask them how they think you could improve your interview techniques.

Lastly, be prepared for a few knock-backs. It will happen, unfortunately.

If possible, and use tact here, find out why you did not get a second interview, or get the job. Some potential employers will tell you where they think you can make improvements - others won't. Don't ring them on the phone, though. Always write.

Most of all, stay calm - always be polite - and keep your chin up.

Blimey, now I feel all grown up. Anyway - best of luck.

[Fleur]

hey - another point.

Your voluntary work for the Powder Mills will look GREAT on an application to IWM.

Voly' work of any kind always looks good on a CV, even if the job you are going for has nothing to do with the voly work you've done. It shows that you are dedicated!

Teapot's is right about the spelling - I don't mind your mis-spelling and can usually decipher your more excited postings ...... I LOVE your enthusiasm, it is SO infectious and anyone interviewing you would pick up on that right away.

You absolutley MUST tell any future employer about your dyslexia, it is very important that they know from the very beginning.

As for checking letters and stuff. I think that if you asked anyone on this forum about applying for jobs etc. they will all say that they get someone else to proof read their applications. I have to ask my Mum to check mine cos she's a wizz at stuff like that

If you EVER need a bit of help, you know that I am just an e-mail away and will proof read / advise as best I can. God knows how many job applications I have sent off over the years - child of the Thatcherite years and her jobs for none policy!

LOL

Good luck sweetheart!

Fleur

[trenchwalker]

cheers people im sorry fleur

i alway thought your name stood for flower.

cheers everyone for your advise.

better than anything i have learned at school.

[Clive Harris]

Hello mate, I am one of those who does work full time on the battlefields so here's my view for what its worth, my first tour ran out mid January this year and my last early December, thats very nearly year round, most if not all of us either have a book shop, B&B or in my case write, lecture and run a research company.

I would be very sceptical of people offering you a course in Battlefield Guiding as we nearly all fell into it due to our passion for the subject, level of knowledge gathered over the years and equally as importantly our contact with veterans. The people offering you such a course must have their own reason for running it and might not guarantee work afterwards, nearly all the work I have done has been offered via word of mouth or reputation.

Hedleys suggestion of taking an NVQ or equivalent course seems ideal, after gaining a qualification in say general tourism you would be in a position to specialise without commiting yourself to such a narrow subject.

There is no doubt that a new crop of guides will be required in the not to distant future as the visitor numbers are now higher than at any stage since the 1920's. A tour these days is not always general, most of mine are now specialist walking tours or for smaller groups following specific units.

I wish you all the luck with your venture, my careers office interview ended with me waking up in the army 6 months later! and if you have any questions I would happily answer them for you. I have worked for a living before, battlefield guiding is not always as glamorous as some might imagine but when I see the Spires of the Cloth Hall, or wake to a misty spring morning on the Hindenburg Line its not a bad life.

Clive

[Fleur]

i alway thought your name stood for flower.

You were very right ......

je suis une petite Fleur (actulement, pas aussi petite as I used to be ... mais une Fleur none the less *great use of Fringlish there don't cha think ..... * )

Fleur

[trenchwalker]

votre sont un petit fluer

d'accord

je suis une petite trouvaille pelucheuse de chose dans la plus petite partie des alpes.

je habite a enfield près des la gare.j'adore la pommes avec la grande guerre que

j'ai malarde la tête sur la toilette. avez-vous on chambre.

avez-vous une douchedans la chambre?

there you have the extent of my french.

[paul guthrie]

You guys really put a lot of thought into trying to help our pal, lovely! I know first hand how good Clive and Paul are and the advice from the rest of you is first rate!

[Fleur]

Zut alors et sacre bleu M. Trench'! (you don't know how much you get laughed at in France when you use those phrases!)

c'est formidable votre use of the language ........ hang on, I sound like that character off Harry Enfield and Chums..... the italian footballer signed to newcastle who speaks in italian until he comes to an english phrase.

Fleur

[trenchwalker]

orla fluer et et et ta ta very funny les grand possion dand la petit lapan dans la

great war forum ich been ein baffon.

okokok hooorah the madness has returned

im am sorry for any french pals who may be reading this .

[Fleur]

hang on, I sound like that character off Harry Enfield and Chums..... the italian footballer signed to newcastle who speaks in italian until he comes to an english phrase.

Julio Jordieo ....... I think that's the character ....

Anyway, none of this is going to help your career, so I'll stop now and wish everyone a good weekend.

See y'all Monday (probably) as I doubt I'll have time tocheck up on you all over the w/end.

Have fun

Fleur

[Tom Morgan]

im already taking a gnvq in tourism and leasure .

i know about all this but its just worth a try.

Martin, I'm another who works as a battlefield guide and it's my only job. I think your "Tourism and Leisure" GNVQ is a good way forward for you. In many ways, the Battlefield Tour "Industry" is similar to the "Holiday Industry." I'm not saying that battlefield tours are sold as holidays, but there are similarities in the way that many tours are put together to make a product , and in the way that product is then marketed.

There is quite a strong "tourism and leisure" aspect in the day-to-day work of battlefield guiding, quite apart from subject-knowledge, and I think it will help you to get this kind of experience and if there's a qualification at the end of it, so much the better. You never know - there might also be job opportunities, perhaps nothing to do with battlefield guiding on the face of it but you'll be looking in the right direction while waiting for other things to drop into place for you.

Best wishes -

Tom

[Martyn Gibson]

Trench,

Fleur is right your enthusiasm is infectious and some of your

postings are a joy to read. You have been given some solid

advice I hope you will follow it.

Remember never lose sight of your shooting star.

Good luck

Martyn

[salientpoints]

Trench,

Have a look here for some idea of how to get started.

http://www.battlefields.freeserve.co.uk/work.html

This would provide an ideal opportunity for you to work as a guide during a Univeristy course for example on WW1 or something. There is some idea of links for courses (historically based) on this thread http://www.1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?s...t=0entry49512

I took a trip with this company to do a quick recce of the some of the area and the guide, I think it was David, he was very nice and helpful chap who was a Univeristy student or maybe had just finished. Anyway he was studying WW1 in some context, something to do with battlefields and the social / economic implications today. Not sure exactly but delved into battlefield archeology and arguements for / against new roads, developments etc etc. (David if you are one of the Pals in here please feel free to put me straight on this - it was back in 2002!).

Anyway, that said, if for example you did a 3 or 4 year course if one of them was a year out you could do something like that and whilst working to support your year out it would be the location to base for example some kind of dissertation on, depending on what your chosen subject area was.

I wish you all the luck - in retrospect I somehow wish I had done something similar all those years ago when I made my choices back at college etc...

Give it a few years and bookmark the link!

Ryan

[Christina Holstein]

That's all wonderfully sensible advice and I only wish I had had similar help when I saw my careers officer - an awful long time ago now when battlefield guides didn't exist as such.

Trench, my son is dyslexic and always gets someone else to check his stuff. It's a bore but it's necessary. Don't let it put you off a university degree if that's what you decide to do. Dyslexia is widely recognised now. My son is in the second year of History and War Studies at Kings College London, so you can see that it hasn't prevented him from doing academic work. I take it you've had your dyslexia professionally diagnosed - if not, it's easy to do.

Another line of approach might be to see if you can get battlefield guiding experience through a summer job in America. Two years ago my son spent a month on an archeological site at Valley Forge in Pennsylvania. There were students employed there as guides/historical consultants. If it's of any interest, I could see if I could find out how you would get more information. I expect American Pals on this site could help too.

Anyway, all the very best Trench, you deserve it!

Christina Holstein.

[salientpoints]

I have just come across the Guild of Battlefield Guides - patron Prof. Richard Holmes and re-read this thread and wondered why no mention of it in here?

http://www.battleguides.org/

Is this something to stay away from or was it overlooked?

Ryan