Italian Front

[MartH]

I've been sorting through my library and came across this booklet a while ago and wonder if anybody knows what it is?

It is signed Sidney G. **avers, and marked SECRET, whats his name, who was he ,and was he part of the GHQ Staff?

Its in Italien, no date

Its printed in Italy by the Army Printing and Stationary Services, 20 pages of text, and 10 pages of photos.

Front Cover

Title page

First page

I could post all the photos if people want, all are interesting.

Regards

Mart

[BeppoSapone]

Something like: "British Army in Italy, Training and Instructions For Troops."

I suppose the Italian troops who were working with the British Army would need to know this sort of thing?

[apwright]

Sidney Spavins?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...Edoc_Id=5515887

Adrian

[swizz]

I thought the name might have been 'Travers' - and there are two:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

...but neither of them is a Sidney G.

This is very interesting. I wish I had more Italian (still learning!)

Swizz

[MartH]

Hi

Thanks, its an odd one trying to get the name, don't think its Spavins, but I'm at a loss for anybody better.

Here's three photo's of the British is Italy, wonder if some opposed each other in 1939-1943?

Is the last photo a gas attack?

Regards

Mart

[swizz]

Maybe - but according to my Italian dictionary 'fumo' means smoke or steam, so they might just be smoke bombs.

Swizz

[MartH]

Hello

I have scanned, oc'dr and tried to translate the document using bablefish, but it does not work. Modern Italien is different to italian before the 1950's when popular paperbacks where even printed in the three dialects, modern italian was forged in thier love of TV quiz shows during the 50's. Does anyone know which dialect it is, and if there is an online translator?

Regards

Mart

[luigi]

maybe I could be of some help in translating but I cannot visualize the images...

[bob lembke]

Hi, Mart! Hi, Luigi!

Mart;

Are these the scans you meant? Interesting book. I bough a somewhat similar book, written by an Italian agency or military office, in Italian, about Allied air training in Italy.

Luigi;

The diary of the engineer/flame thrower officer; I translated a good chunk of it, but have put it aside for a while. Although I do not know Italian "from beans", as we say, it wasn't bad going. But the language seemed non-standard. Was it in dialect, or just informal Italian?

An American colonel I know has written two books about El Alemien (sp.?), and knows of the Italian officer who was associated with that spot in several ways.

Sorry about the PMs.

Happy to chat with you guys.

Bob Lembke

[luigi]

Hi, Mart! Hi, Luigi!

Mart;

Are these the scans you meant? Interesting book. I bough a somewhat similar book, written by an Italian agency or military office, in Italian, about Allied air training in Italy.

Luigi;

The diary of the engineer/flame thrower officer; I translated a good chunk of it, but have put it aside for a while. Although I do not know Italian "from beans", as we say, it wasn't bad going. But the language seemed non-standard. Was it in dialect, or just informal Italian?

An American colonel I know has written two books about El Alemien (sp.?), and knows of the Italian officer who was associated with that spot in several ways.

Sorry about the PMs.

Happy to chat with you guys.

Bob Lembke

Hello Bob,

The language of the book of Caccia Dominoni is just somewhat "aged" but otherwise fairly colloquial. Maybe there are some quotes of companions of him in some dialect, I don't recall now out of memory.

Can you give me the references for the books about El Alamein written by the colonel you know? Thank you

Luigi

P.S. Elas, my father doesn't recall more than I have already told you about my grandfather and flamethrowers... sorry!

[MartH]

Hello

Sorry just seen you replies, apologies. Been doing a lot of scanning for another thread and took my eye off this one.

Can you see the images yet? Should I email you them?

Bob I mean the scans in 3rd Ypres Thread

Regards

Mart

[bob lembke]

Hello Bob,

The language of the book of Caccia Dominoni is just somewhat "aged" but otherwise fairly colloquial. Maybe there are some quotes of companions of him in some dialect, I don't recall now out of memory.

Can you give me the references for the books about El Alamein written by the colonel you know? Thank you

Luigi

P.S. Elas, my father doesn't recall more than I have already told you about my grandfather and flamethrowers... sorry!

Hi, Luigi!

I was about to post the citations for the books on El Alamein, but I just noticed that they were recently published by the Night Vision and Electronic Sensors Directorate of the US Army, so I want to ask him if I should cite the books, as they are not in commercial distribution, I would think. The books are not general histories of the battle, but rather specialized. Sorry! I can usually reach the author very quickly, unless he is in the field.

As to the translation of the diary of Caccia Dominoni, I had a bit of trouble, probably due to very poor Italian - English dictionaries, not inherent problems with Italian. My amazing wife studied Italian for six weeks 20 years ago, and if I ask her about a word, usually when the dictionaries failed me, she typically knows the word 60-70% of the time. But she has very good French and Latin, and she uses Italian occasionally at work.

I will PM you about your family oral history. I would like to have very clear citations so that if you allow me to put the material in a publication, I can properly cite your grand-father as the source. Although limited, the info is quite telling and very useful; there is little info on WW I Italian flame throwers, at least in English, and much published information on the general topic is nonsense or outright fabrications.

Bob Lembke.

[bob lembke]

Hi, Luigi!

I reached the author and it is fine to cite these books on an open forum. The first book, which is the history itself, is the following. Both are nicely produced, but paper covers.

Schneck, William; Breaching the Devil's Garden - The 6th New Zealand Brigade in Operation Lightfoot - The Second Battle of El Alamein; January 2005; Night Vision and Electronic Sensors Directorate, US Army; Fort Belvoir, VA.

The second book has the same citation, except for the title and date. They are:

Breaching the "Devil's Garden" - Operation Lightfoot - The Second Battle of El Alamein - 23 October 1942 - (Appendices) ; February 2006.

Bill even stated that the first book is available for sale on the Internet, and gave me a link. However, he is not sure that the site can be accessed from a computer other than one belonging to the US Department of Defense. So I will test that and post the link if it works.

The books are very specifically studies of mine warfare, not general histories. The second volume is Allied and German documents, orders, maps, diagrams, etc. The bibliography in the second volume lists about 200 sources. Both books are a bit shy of 300 pages, large format.

Bob Lembke.