trin1054 Posted 6 February , 2007 Share Posted 6 February , 2007 Good evening, can anyone tell me which of 11th Division's Artillery Brigades (58 - 61) played a part in the Gallipoli campaign? I know 59 Brigade took part in the initial landing and were there for the duration but I'm unsure about the others. Many thanks, Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 6 February , 2007 Share Posted 6 February , 2007 Marc, My copy of Westlake only includes the infantry battalions. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 6 February , 2007 Share Posted 6 February , 2007 Marc- "British Regiments at Gallipoli" won't help with this. The book only covers the movements of the Infantry Battalions and Yeomanry Regiments which were there. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 6 February , 2007 Share Posted 6 February , 2007 The Order of Battle for August 1915 in the Official History lists the following for 11th (Northern Division): LVIII Bde. RFA (A, B, C and D Btys.) LIX Bde RFA (A, B, C and D Btys.) LX Bde. RFA (A, B, C and D Btys.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 6 February , 2007 Share Posted 6 February , 2007 Marc This is a crop from an artillery map of Suvla. I hope it comes out ok but if not the Brigades are 57, 58 & 60. 59 were further south at Lala Baba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 6 February , 2007 Share Posted 6 February , 2007 Marc Not too clear this may be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 7 February , 2007 Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Marc 55 & 59 Brigades at Lala Baba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 7 February , 2007 Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Marc, From "The Forgotten Fronts and the Home Base, 1914-18, History of the Royal Regiment of History" by General Sir Martin Farndale (I'm sorry, but they should have come up with a better title for that book) - "11th (Northern Division) CRA Brigadier-General E.J. Granet" (as stated, 58th, 59th and 60th Brigades each consisting of A, B, C, and D Batteries) with the following comment: "All field batteries had 4 x 15 pounders, 58th Brigade RFA landed at Anzac on 9th August and moved to Suvla on 16th. A Battery 59th Brigade RFA landed at Suvla on 7th August, the remainder on 9th. 60th Brigade RFA remained in Egypt but arrived Suvla on 25th October." Further on:" Now we turn to the landings at Suvla. Sir Ian Hamilton aimed to land 13,700 men of 11th Division and the 12 guns" {actually 8} " of the 4th (Highland) Mountain Brigade (8 x 10-pounders) and "A" Battery (4 x 18 pounders) of 59th Brigade RFA starting at 2200 hours on 6th August and ending at 1000 hours on 7th. A further 7,000 men and 44 guns would follow immediately. These were to be: "B", "C" and "D" Batteries 59th Brigade RFA (12 x 18-pounders) landing from the MINNEAPOLIS followed by 11th Heavy Battery (4 x 60-pounders). The 16 x 18-pounders of 58th Brigade RFA and 4 more 60-pounders, of 10th Heavy Battery, together with 1st and 2nd Howitzer Batteries of 1st/4th (Lowland) Howitzer Brigade RFA (8 x 5-inch howitzers) which were already ashore at Anzac and these were to march north along the shore on the 7th. This data, including the contradictions, appear on page 40 and page 47, so you can see that, while there is a great deal of data to mine from this book, one must be careful and check secondary (and further) sources to feel confident in the accuracy of OB's, and armament. Great maps, Essdee! Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trin1054 Posted 7 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Thanks to all for their input here - it's very much appreciated. Those maps are marvellous. Sorry I didn't realise Westlake's book only dealt with infantry, I should have known by the title really... The following preliminary insructions for 11th Division may be of interest. As you can see, only 59 Bde is mentioned and I don't have anything else currently on the other Brigades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trin1054 Posted 7 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 7 February , 2007 Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Marc A couple of added notes re 11 Divisional Arty. As you know A/59 Bty were landed along with the Highland Bde mountain guns. On the 9th they, together with the Ross & Cromarty Bty are placed under orders of GOC 33rd Inf. Bde. On the night of the 13th C/58 moved over to the North side of Suvla bay to join A/58 with B/58 & D/58 coming in from Anzac. On the 23rd The Divisional HQ moved to Lala Baba, “”CRA 10th Div remains in original position as CRA Left flank. All artillery is then divided into two “groups” under CRA’s 10th & 11th Divisions repectively.”” If this seems a bit of a muddle, it was. The horses sent to bring in the guns from Anzac, which they could only do at night, were therefore not available to move field guns elsewhere. A fact not lost on the 33rd Inf Bde GOC who says the field guns attached to him were not of much use as there were no horses available to move them. It was only the Mountain guns of the Highland Bde which provided him with useful fire support. There are various little bits such as the drying out of rounds in the sun which were recovered from a sunken supply ship.57 Bde test fired some with little success. Shortly after landing A/59 Bty ran out of rounds, withdrew the sights and were placed in the redoubt with rifles until a supply was able to be brought up. As for 60 Bde RFA, they were withdrawn from 11th Div’s artillery prior to the Suvla landings of the 6/7th to be landed later. The diaries of the Commander Royal Artillery (CRA) 10th & 11th Division should provide a reasonable picture. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trin1054 Posted 10 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2007 Stuart - thanks very much for the added details. You've helped clear up a lot of confusion for me. Cheers, Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plummed Goose Posted 15 February , 2007 Share Posted 15 February , 2007 Dear Marc, Only a detail but A/59 must have moved to Chocolate hill later in the campaign. Have a look at bombardier Dale's (gunner of A 59) account at : www.gallipoli.com.tr\pages\memorials_cemeteries\suvla\green_hill.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 15 February , 2007 Share Posted 15 February , 2007 Marc CRA diary transcript from the 9th makes things a bit clearer. August 9th "" During the night A/59th Bde RFA moved forward and occupied position on the NW slopes of Yilghin Burnu. The Ross and Cromarty Mountain Battery also advanced to Yilghin Burnu. B/59 th Bde RFA which had just landed occupied the position vacated by A/59 on W slopes of Lala Baba. An attack was started on the Turkish positions at 05.00. B/59 had to fire so heavily that at 11 they ran out of ammunition. The sights were withdrawn from the guns and the gunners were taken into the redoubt on the top of Yilghin Burnu. Here they were armed with rifles and went into the first trenches. The battery commander Major HPJ Cowell and Lieut. RTW Glynn were wounded. About mid-day four wagons of ammunition were successfully pushed forward to A/59. Both A/59 and the Ross and Cromarty Mountain Battery were placed under the orders of GOC 33rd Inf. Bde who was at Yilghin Burnu. B/59 from Lala Baba fired on various targets between ISMAIL OGLU and BAKA BABA. In the evening C/59 and D/59 arrived and occupied position on the west slope of Lala Baba. They arrived to late to take any serious part in the action. "" I've added another map crop to make things clearer Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ward Posted 26 February , 2021 Share Posted 26 February , 2021 On 07/02/2007 at 12:28, essdee said: Marc Not too clear this may be better Where abouts are the 58th on the map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 26 February , 2021 Share Posted 26 February , 2021 It's a few years since 'essdee' last visited the GWF and I don't have a copy of the map which they were working from here. However, if you look at the first version (that seen in the fifth post) then you can pick out B/58 just to the west of Hill 10 in square 117 It's beneath the foot of the first 1 in 117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ward Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 11 hours ago, michaeldr said: It's a few years since 'essdee' last visited the GWF and I don't have a copy of the map which they were working from here. However, if you look at the first version (that seen in the fifth post) then you can pick out B/58 just to the west of Hill 10 in square 117 It's beneath the foot of the first 1 in 117 Michaeldr, Found it tucked away at the bottom - far away from the 11th Div - they certainly wheeled their guns around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ward Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 2 minutes ago, Awardie said: Michaeldr, Found it tucked away at the bottom - far away from the 11th Div - they certainly wheeled their guns around. Michaeldr, any idea what month that position was taken up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 B/58 took up a position behind Hill 10 on the night of 15th August 1915, although it was not until 17th when the battery came into action. Hill 10 is approximately 117 R6-9. References: 11th Division CRA War Diary, 58th Brigade RFA War Diary and 1:20,000 Anafarta Sagir map. I hope that helps. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ward Posted 1 March , 2021 Share Posted 1 March , 2021 Noted. Many thanks Alantwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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