keithchristmas Posted 3 February , 2007 Share Posted 3 February , 2007 Hi, Do records still exist to show when a particular LSGC was awarded to a member of the Royal Fleet Reserve? I would like to establish if possible, the date that this medal was awarded to AB Abert Halls. 189832 CH.B.3459. He joined the RFR at Chatham on 4 Nov 1905, and re-enlisted 9 Apr 1910. Re-joining the Royal Navy at the outbreak of WW1, he served on HMS Hawke. He was one of the few survivors when this ship was sunk on the 15 Oct 1915. Many thanks, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 3 February , 2007 Share Posted 3 February , 2007 Keith, His documents are here if you don't already have them; http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1 He would have been awarded the LSGC medal whilst serving in the RN, reserve service didn't count. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benson Posted 3 February , 2007 Share Posted 3 February , 2007 Hi Kieth According to Douglas-Morris the medal was approved in April 1920 but because of design cost questions (it was intended to be oval as per Militia/Yeo) it was not issued until July 1922. As your man is a Class B (CH.B.) reservist, having completed 12 years service prior to joining the RFR, he could have been eligible during his first 5 year engagement, qualifying time being 15 years aggregate RN/RFR time (war service not to count as double). Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithchristmas Posted 3 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2007 Hi, thanks for the info. I have checked his service record which shows that he was born on 18 September 1896. He joined as Boy 2CL on the 14 August 1896. His 12 year engagement commenced on 18 Sep 1896 (at age 18). He then served upto the 3 Nov 1905. 'Shore for RFR'. By this time he had then served a total of 9 years. Would it have been unusual to transfer to the RFR before completing his 12 years? I am aware of the short service system, but thought they had a SS prefix to the service number. His service number was 189832. If I add his RN and RFR service together, it would appear that he would have qualified for his RFR LSGC medal in about 1911. Do the National Achivies hold a list of these awards? I would like to try and pin point the exact date of award if possible. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benson Posted 3 February , 2007 Share Posted 3 February , 2007 I believe the RFR roll is in (ADM171/147) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithchristmas Posted 3 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2007 Dave, Many thanks, Would you know if you can just turn up on the day and search the records or would you have to request access to this particular file in advance? Any thoughts as to why he only served nine years before joining the RFR? Regards, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benson Posted 3 February , 2007 Share Posted 3 February , 2007 Yes just turn up, the only thing the article says is because of a shortage of stokers the 12 years of service was 5 years/7 years with the RFR when seamen served 7/5 -or- anyone suitable with more than 4 years service who left by purchase, but this should be noted on his papers. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 4 February , 2007 Share Posted 4 February , 2007 You may find an entry on the bottom of his Service Sheet: RFR LS Medal & a date,this appears on both sets of Papers of the two I have.[in the section headed Decorations,Medals & GC Badges?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 4 February , 2007 Share Posted 4 February , 2007 Keith, Was he serving in the RFR in 1922, when the medal was first awarded. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 4 February , 2007 Share Posted 4 February , 2007 I believe the RFR roll is in (ADM171/147) The National Archives do not have complete coverage of the Naval LSGC medal rolls; according to the catalogue this roll covers 1933-1942, but you might as well check it. It is on microfilm so you can just turn up and go to the microfilm reading room. His WW1 medals will be recorded on the medal roll ADM 171/104 in the same reading room. There is usually a note on the service record, usually specific as HB says, but might be 'traced medal' or 'traced med'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithchristmas Posted 7 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Thank you to all who have replied. Charles asked whether AB Hall was still serving in 1922. I have checked his records and can confirm that he left the Royal Navy on the 6 July 1917. No mention of him re-joining the RFR at this time. When the RFR long service medal was introduced in 1922, would it have been back dated to include every rating who had previously completed a total of 15 years service in the RN and RFR. From his service record, I calculate that he would have completed 15 years service in both RN and RFR by about 1911. Regards, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 7 February , 2007 Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Keith, I cannot find a reference to the accumalation of time served in the Reserve before Feb 1925, maybe one of the medal buffs can help out. I cannot see him getting a LSGC medal unless he fulfilled the criteria for the RN or RNR/RNVR. Unless of course you know he did. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 7 February , 2007 Share Posted 7 February , 2007 Capt. K. Douglas-Morris RN The Naval Long Service Medals (Naval & Military Press reprint), 256: 'On 1st April 1920 the Admiralty approved the institution of ... a new decoration to be called the Royal Fleet Reserve Long Service and Good Conduct Medal ...', which could be earned after serving 15 years aggregated RN and RFR time conditional on very good character and having carried out the prescribed training.' Douglas-Morris does not mention that the award could be claimed retrospectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 8 February , 2007 Share Posted 8 February , 2007 But if he got it it should be here: ADM 171/146 RFR Long Service Medal 1921-1932. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithchristmas Posted 8 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 8 February , 2007 Many thanks everyone! I'll have to get to Kew and see what I can find. Kind regards, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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