See how fast an Enfield could be fire

[peter__m]

'By lucky chance or instinct I saw the enemy machine-gun. There it was, mounted daringly on the roof of a cottage, close to the left side of a chimney, about six hundred yards away, and directly to my front. With all my strength I shrieked the range, described the target, and ordered five rounds rapid fire. There was a heartening response as we opened fire at the first and only target we had seen in this terrible attack.

In about four seconds some thirty bullets were whistling about that dark spot near the chimney as we slammed in our rapid fire, glad to have work to do, and gloriously, insanely, and incredibly the German gun stopped firing, and then it disappeared as it was quickly withdrawn behind the roof.

"Fire at the roof below the ridge of the house, about three feet down," I ordered exultantly, and I could have whooped for joy. I was now commanding effectively. Damn the rest of the enemy fire. Their riflefire was always poor anyway, and blow the shells. They might hit you and they might not. There was none of the deadly accuracy of the machine-gun in these other weapons of the enemy. I breathed a long breath of relief and looked about me.

I looked right and left at my section to see that all were firing.'

John F. Lucy 'There's a Devil in the Drum'

_______________________________________________

You can just feel it can't you.

So well written that book and an excellent primary account of what you're talking about.

[Robert Dunlop]

The idea was to get as much lead as possible into a specific volume of space.

Yes, the concept of the beaten zone meant that potential targets could be engaged at distance, even when the targets were behind a ridge. I have seen the latter approach of indirect musketry fire described but I don't know of any action where it was put into effect.

Robert

[ragamuffin]

But this man was not under pressure as on the battlefields. He was not deprived of sleep, was not hungry, was not wet, was not cold, he could feel his hands, was not fighting for his life, did not have a dirty rifle, was not shooting at moving targets (or indeed shadows) , was not trying to duck from enemy fire, was not trying to keep awareness of all around him, had no gas to deter him, had no artillery bursting in front of him, no smoke to blind him, so was maybe more alert & ready than the Great War soldier.

Maybe that had something to do with it.

Also he was lying down, which greatly improves things.

Finally he had a choice to be there, others were not so fortunate, which we know makes a difference.

Danke.

[peter__m]

Yes, the concept of the beaten zone meant that potential targets could be engaged at distance, even when the targets were behind a ridge. I have seen the latter approach of indirect musketry fire described but I don't know of any action where it was put into effect.

Robert

That's the 2nd Battalion Royal Irish Rifles at Le Aisne 1914

[T8HANTS]

As Cadets years ago we were shown a training film of two sergeants of the KRRC who were shown shooting in the high thirties per minute. They were matched if memory serves me correctly against someone using a Garrand, and were faster. Moral the British army doesn't need a self loading rifle, so they didn't get one for about another five years after the film was made.

Incidentally, our old instructor told us to knock the second charger out of the bridge, charger loading, guide, by the bolt as you chamber the first round. As I have never seen that written down in a maunual, that must have been an old soldier trick.

Gareth

[FAAAEd]

Heres a link to Enfield Association mad minute. He's a little slow at the start because of a jamb but then gets going nicely.

Thanks for that link, it reminded me of what a superb rifle it was to handle.

I regretted when the change to SLR (FLN) came, but then I only ever used them for drill or on a range.

[Robert Dunlop]

That's the 2nd Battalion Royal Irish Rifles at Le Aisne 1914

Thanks Peter.

Robert

[walrus]

"...Incidentally, our old instructor told us to knock the second charger out of the bridge, charger loading, guide, by the bolt as you chamber the first round. As I have never seen that written down in a maunual, that must have been an old soldier trick..."

We were taught to catch the edge of the thumb between the 'faces' of the charger, so that, as the thumb was withdrawn, the charger flipped out too.

Tom (the Walrus)

[RMF]

Hello,

I agree with Steve, it would be good to see the target/score. Not gripping the small of the but while firing would, I think, reduce accuracy.

Old Tom

Tom:

If I remember correctly the trigger of the SMLE had two pressures. In the rapid fire sequence in the video,

not only is the rifleman not gripping the small of the butt as he appears to be holding onto the bolt as he fires, but he is firing so quickly that he appears to be "pulling through" the two pressures which would, if this is the case, likely further reduce the accuracy.

If I might share an anecdote. I once saw a rapid fire sequence on a firing range interrupted by a hot ejected cartridge from a Mark IV Lee Enfield falling into the sleeve of the rifleman's tunic.

Bob

[gew98]

Hello,

As for the barrel over heating, the only real problem is a cook off. Since the SMLE fires from the closed bolt unlike a MG, the barrel can get so hot that as soon as you put a round in the chamber, it will cook off whether the bolt is closed or not.

I have 4 Lee Enfield's and I have never tried firing that fast. I will have to give it a try once all of the snow melts and the tempt drops from the -35C it is now.

I understand the love of SMLE's that some of the other members have talked about. I have two SMLE BSA's, a 1917 and 1918. I also have a No4 Mk 1 , ROF 1942 and a Long Branch 1943.

As for those of you who do not have the opprotunity to fire a Lee Enfield, if you ever come to my area of Canada, i'll take you out for a little bit of fun.

Cam

Cam ; it is nearly impossibl;e to get a bolt rifle hot enough to incur a cook off. I have tried it with enfields , with 8mm mauser bolt rifles and never succeeded to get a cook off unless I let the very flaming weapon sit some seconds. I have fired a No1 Mk111 until it got so hot it had a case rupture , fired several 98 mauser actions that got so hot the wood literally smoked and got scorched.Loads of oil poured from those stocks. The heat waves eminating from the barrels absolutely obscured sights. I had to move my left hand to the magazine area as the forestocks and sights on those mausers got red hot practically. I was able to do this because I had two 1500 round tins of chinese 1951 dated surplus 154 grain ball. And that fodder was loaded hot too !.

While in uniform I did manage to get the M16A1 in a cook off situation......took firing an 820 round can and then getting into the next 820 can of 5,56 to get there. But it still took a moment of delay from chambering to it going off and a slow hesitant 'chug' fire for every round that chambered after that initial cookoff. Now I have had better results wi tthe M60 and M240...they readily would cook off after 400 rounds belted put through in one squeeze. More often than not though when those Mg's did cook off the round was not chambered fully and resulted in a damaged bolt/extractor as the brass case blew before it was seated.

I have had the browing 50 caliber cook off - as it fired from a closed bolt and after good couple long bursts it would 'chug fire' if left sit and loaded when so hot. But I digress.

[MikB]

Looks to me like he's shooting with the third finger. I've never tried that with live rounds, but at dryfire practice it seems practical.

I too would like to see the results. He comes to a consistent aim with majority of shots, but a few he seems to loose off early - though having examined it again, none were so early as to look as if they dug dirt or went seriously OTT.

Regards,

MikB

[gew98]

Looks to me like he's shooting with the third finger. I've never tried that with live rounds, but at dryfire practice it seems practical.

I too would like to see the results. He comes to a consistent aim with majority of shots, but a few he seems to loose off early - though having examined it again, none were so early as to look as if they dug dirt or went seriously OTT.

Regards,

MikB

Mik ; It is the "middle" finger that does the trigger work. I can remember well the faces of some fellas at the sandpit I used to shoot at 20 years ago when I cranked up a smelly and let ten round sfly at a time like a semiauto. It was great fun and very easy to master with such a slick action.