WW1 group photo

[peter__m]

'Ding dong...the witch is dead.'

Time to come back to Kansas Dorothy.

[Simon Jones]

This might help.

[BeppoSapone]

Why shouldn't it be Hitler?

The man second from the right in the back row is clearly Joseph Goebbels.

[BeppoSapone]

Why shouldn't it be Hitler?

The man second from the right in the back row is clearly Joseph Goebbels.

How many of you looked?

[SiegeGunner]

Why shouldn't it be Hitler?

The man second from the right in the back row is clearly Joseph Goebbels.

Although I have no doubt whatever that these photos do not show Hitler, it did occur to me that they might contain 'someone else', and I scanned the faces but couldn't see anyone that looked familiar.

Now that we seem to have a broad consensus that the pics show men of the 1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment, shortly before WW1, I wonder if there is someone out there who specialises in this branch of the Bavarian army and perhaps has other photos of the same group, hopefully with names?

[blindpelican]

Although I have no doubt whatever that these photos do not show Hitler, it did occur to me that they might contain 'someone else', and I scanned the faces but couldn't see anyone that looked familiar.

Now that we seem to have a broad consensus that the pics show men of the 1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment, shortly before WW1, I wonder if there is someone out there who specialises in this branch of the Bavarian army and perhaps has other photos of the same group, hopefully with names?

that is the first post that makes sense

[James Blonde]

that is the first post that makes sense

Yeah, a lot more than this post:

"Hitler was in the same unit through the whole war, I believe. bav. RIR 16 never wore uniforms like that."

yes they did!

and guess what - the photo comparisons prove it's the same man -

no matter how many hours each of you spend to become experts - it is Hitler -

And the familiy photo is a unique part of HISTORY -

you have said nothing to convince me otherwise.

thanks for your interest

this is my last post

We are still waiting for your forensic evidence to prove to us otherwise

Connaught Stranger.

[SiegeGunner]

that is the first post that makes sense

Now I'm confused. I say that I'm sure his pic doesn't show Hitler. I say that it shows 1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment, which Hitler wasn't in, and I express the hope that someone out there has further pics of the same unit, with names - none of which will be Hitler. And the man who wants the pics to be Hitler says it makes sense.

[blindpelican]

Now I'm confused. I say that I'm sure his pic doesn't show Hitler. I say that it shows 1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment, which Hitler wasn't in, and I express the hope that someone out there has further pics of the same unit, with names - none of which will be Hitler. And the man who wants the pics to be Hitler says it makes sense.

i just want clear reference! how do you identify 1st bavarian foot artillery regiment?

[Max]

i just want clear reference! how do you identify 1st bavarian foot artillery regiment?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[BeppoSapone]

Sorry to all for my joke that seems to have started this bullshit off again.

[Simon Jones]

Sorry to all for my joke that seems to have started this bullshit off again.

That goes for me too.

[SiegeGunner]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

My thoughts entirely ....

[blindpelican]

1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment

please explain

[blindpelican]

1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment

please explain

"Now that we seem to have a broad consensus that the pics show men of the 1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment"?

explain

[bob lembke]

"Now that we seem to have a broad consensus that the pics show men of the 1st Bavarian Foot Artillery Regiment"?

explain

Jeff (?);

I will try to explain a bit. I myself have very little interest in uniforms, and know little, especially uniforms of the other three German armies (i.e., non-Prussian). I have. I think, three of the Woolsey books, and I have only thumbed thru one of them.

But many people study them (uniforms) in detail, and know a lot about them. The uniforms, like just about everything about the German armies, were extraordinarily complex, although during the war this was simplified as pomp became less important and winning the damned war more important.

These uniforms in the two group photos are very unusual, in many ways. Clearly several Pals have identified various details that they feel identify the regiment. Being the 1st Bavarian regiment of heavy artillery, it must have been old and somewhat elite and would be likely to have unusual, often historic uniform details.

An example: Several German regiments, or maybe only one, wore a cuff band with the word "Gibralter". (Mis-spelled?) I think that this is based on the fact that these regiment(s) fought with the British against Napoleon about two hundred years ago. Other example: My father's regiment was, only about three months after being formed as a regiment (from a battalion of about nine companies!), was entitled to wear a skull and cross-bones on their lower left sleeve. A couple of very old regiments wore the skull and cross-bones, but in different patterns, and in different places; the two I can think of were on the hat. (This has nothing to do with the SS, except that Hitler adopted several elite unit marks of distiunction, like the collar lace (Litzen) of the Prussian Guard, and put them all over WW II uniforms.)

So if I see a photo of a soldier wearing the black shoulder straps of the Pioniere and the skull and cross-bones on the left cuff, and perhaps the collar lace of the Prussian Guard, you immediately know that it was one of the 3000 men of my father's unit, out of 6,000,000 men. A cavalryman, known from other uniform details, possibly spurs, wearing a certain skull and cross-bones on the hat had to be a man of the famous Death's Head Hussars, which Crown Prince Wilhelm served in and eventually commanded. An infantryman with a skull and crossbones on the cap between the two cockades would probably be a member of Infantry Regiment 92, if memory serves.

Although I don't know a lot about uniforms, it is clear even to me that these guys are not ordinary infantry, are unlikely to be any sort of infantry, are not normal privates, etc. People more familiar with uniforms know the little details of ribbon, piping, that show that they mostly are this "one year volunteer"s, a very special type of soldier, and that "Hitler" is an Unteroffizier, a rank to which the successful one year volunteer would be promoted to, on his way to an eventual rank of Leutnant.

Just that artillery shell tassle on the end of "Hitler's" marksmanship lanyard makes it 100% sure that he is an artilleryman, not an infantryman, and therefore 100% sure that he is not Hitler. All of the other information is just "icing on the cake".

You have seen the sad sack uniforms that accepted pictures of Hitler always seemed to depict. He probably only had one, possibly two pair, very unlikely anything else, except a coat, underwear, etc. One brim-less cap (Muetze), possibly also a billed cap that he was not allowed to wear near the front. The uniform had no decoration at all, except when he got his EK II and then EK I, and when he was made a Gefreiter (not a NCO, just sort of a senior private or lance corporal) he was allowed to add a large plain button onto each side of the collar mid-way back. None of those fancy little details that those soldiers exhibit, and never uniforms of such quality and good tailoring.

Perhaps some Pals that are still interested in this tired topic could mention the uniform details that identify the unit. Possibly the interesting cuffs (or lack of them) and the white shoulder-straps might be some of them.

Bob Lembke