Nurse Winifred H. Griffin

[Trenchrat]

Hi,

I recently acquired the personal photo album of a nurse by the name of Winifred H. Griffin. I would like to find out more about her service and if she received any medals for her service. I know from one photo in the album that she served at a place called Rosslyn Lodge from 1916-1917. I'm not sure if she served with the Red Cross or some other nursing order. In a couple photos she is seen wearing an armband with writing on it, however that writing isn't clear. Her brother Douglas Morley Griffin gave her the album. He served as a 2nd Lieutenant in the 18th Battalion of the King's Liverpool Regiment until being mortally wounded. He died from his wounds on July 16,1916, and now rests in the Abbeville Communal Cemetery. He and I would assume Winifred, lived at 2, The Wilderness,Holly Hill,Hampstead, London. Any help in tracing this brave woman's service to King and Country, would be most appreciated.

John

[Coldstreamer]

Had a quick look on the medal index cards but cant see her

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...mp;mediaArray=*

I dont know the name of units she may have served in so cant help much more - but using here name (and rank as nurse) didnt find her

[Coldstreamer]

A search on google says it was an Auxiiliary Military hospital in Hampstead, NW

[Trenchrat]

Hi,

Thanks for your help. It would seem then that she served in a military hospital fairly close to home then. That's very interesting.

John

[Sue Light]

John

This is only an observation, but it seems to me that the majority of albums that appear for sale belonged to women working as untrained nurses, i.e. VADs, in smaller military units. A lot of these were working close to home, and most had no overseas service. I'd contact the British Red Cross Society to see if they have a record for her - address on this link - they're normally very quick indeed to reply:

http://www.redcross.org.uk/standard.asp?id=3423

Sue

[Trenchrat]

Hi Sue,

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me what part of London Hampstead is? This Rosslyn Lodge sounds like it was someones private estate before the war. Any idea if it still stands and who the estate belonged to? I realize that if it's still around and the Germans didn't bomb it out of existance in WW 2, that it's probably a museum now. Still it'd be interesting to know. I'll contact the BRCS as soon as I can. Thanks again for your help. Are there any good books on British nurses in WW I?

John

[Sue Light]

John

Hampstead is in north-west London, and was then [and more so now] quite a built up area, but a rather desirable place to live in, particularly for those of us who could never, ever afford it. I'm sure there are forum members who are familiar with the area, but a quick Google shows Rosslyn Lodge to have been in Lyndhurst Road, Hampstead, not far from Belsize Park tube station, and a short way south of Hampstead Heath. It seems to have been a large house with a history, and perhaps it's worth contacting the Camden local archives:

http://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/content/conta...hives-centre.en

For streetmaps in the UK generally, try Google maps UK at:

http://maps.google.co.uk/

As for the books - the book that I'm definitely NOT a fan of, but I always see others raving about it, is Lyn Macdonald's 'The Roses of No Man's Land.' I think that for your purposes you might find it very useful - it's easily available from libraries, or cheaply online.

Sue

[Coldstreamer]

if she only served UK she wouldnt qualify for campaign medals

[Trenchrat]

Hi Sue,

Thanks a lot for your help. I'll write to the British Red Cross people as soon as I get the album. I'm hoping it will have a bit more information that I in turn can supply to the Red Cross to aid in their search. It's too bad I have to write my request and can't simply email my research request. I took anoher look at the arm band around her left arm and I can only make out one word, Army. The rest of the armband is out of focus.

It will be interesting to see what the Red Cross is able to tell me about Winifred. Though I realize that I have to be prepared for the worst and have them tell me that they can't find out anything about her, I'm still hoping for the best. Sue why don't you like the MacDonald book? Oh what was the difference between a regular Red Cross nurse and a nurse belonging to the Order of St. John? By difference I'm referring just to their nurses uniform.

John

[Pete L]

Hi John

I was planning to bid on it myself at one time. If you PM me with an email address I will send you the 1901 census for her, Douglas and family. Their mother was born in Liverpool, which might explain why Douglas joined that regiment.

I think I found out Winifred, or one of the other nurses, was in the VAD. But I cannot remember where I got that from.

Pete

[Trenchrat]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for sharing this information. I've sent you my email address via PM. I'm looking forward to seeing what you found out about Winifred.

John

[Sue Light]

John

Prior to the war, the British Red Cross Society and the Order of St. John, were two separate organizations, with similar aims. During the war, they combined their resources to form the Joint War Committee, although they kept some of their individual identities. When talking about members of Voluntary Aid Detachments, women are often referred to as coming under the auspices of the BRCS, although more correctly that should be referred to as JWC. I wouldn't worry too much about the differences during wartime.

As to the book, I've so far avoided getting involved in two subjects on the Forum - one is Vera Brittain, and the other 'The Roses of No Man's Land', but as you've asked...

... There is very little indeed written about nursing during the Great War - if you remove Florence Nightingale from nursing history in general, the whole lot is almost one great blank. What is written [WW1] is mainly anecdotal biographies by VADs, and one or two accounts by trained nurses. In addition, there are a certain number of unpublished memoirs at the IWM and other archives. In more modern times there have been a tiny handful of books covering the subject, most of which are loosely based on the same round of source material, and of which 'Roses' is the most well known.

My view of the book is that it says a great deal about the war in general, and has many first hand accounts by men, and is then padded out with material from a limited number of female sources, most of which refer to the untrained nurse - and perhaps it could be argued that an untrained nurse is not really a nurse at all. It says nothing about the organization and staffing of the nursing services; the management and running; the difficulties in recruitment and in maintaining establishments during the war. It says nothing about the hospitals, their size, their expansion, their staffing levels; nothing worthwhile about living conditions, particularly for those women on active service in various theatres. It doesn't refer to mundane things like how they got to France, how often they were posted to different units, how much they were paid, what they wore, how often they got leave, who they socialized with; what was allowed and what was forbidden.

I have no argument with Lyn Macdonald writing very good books, and maybe this is one of them - it's a good yarn. But it's become a symbol of what nursing was like during the war. On this Forum, you just need one mention of nurses and hospitals, and someone will say 'Oh you couldn't do better than read 'Roses of No Man's Land'. But it's [iMO] a very superficial account of just a tiny sample of nursing life - it lacks depth, information and hard fact about the nursing services. It's written by someone who knows a great deal about the war, but nothing at all about the nursing services, and she has relied almost exclusively on anecdotal evidence to paint her picture. But because of her pedigree as a historian, it leads people to believe that the account is the be all and end all of a nurse's life in wartime.

In one way, in view of the dearth of material, that's not surprising, but it never fails to irritate me.

Right, now I've got that off my chest...

[Just don't start me on Vera Brittain]

Sue

[Trenchrat]

Hi Sue,

Thanks for the book review. It's too bad that no one has really written a good account of what life was like for these ladies. So the Red Cross nurses and the St. John nurses wore pretty much the same uniform during the war? Is that correct? Once again thanks for all your help on this and I'll let you know what I find out about Winifred's service.

John

[Sue Light]

John

Apart from the very beginning of the war, most VADs were wearing the same uniform - mid blue dress, white apron, sometimes with a red cross, and from mid1915 handkerchief style hats tied at the back. There was more variety in the uniforms of the different trained nurses, and many nurses remained 'civilians' throughout, and would wear the uniform of their own hospital. One problem with that is, of course, that images were in black and white, so not always possible to distinguish colour.

When you get the album sorted, if there are any images of uniform, I'm always happy to look at them and give an opinion, via the red link at the bottom of my post. On the web site there's another link for contact re photos.

Sue

[Trenchrat]

Hi Sue,

Thanks a lot again for your help. I'll try to send you a photo of Winifred if I'm able. I'm not very knowledgeable regarding computers and may have difficulty sending it. I'll let you know. I see you do research on nurses service records, that wouldn't include researching VAD's like Winifred probably was would it?

John

[Trenchrat]

YAY!! I just got promoted to sergeant thanks to my last post. Any idea how many I have to do for my next promotion?

John

[Trenchrat]

Hi,

I just thought I'd tell all the fellow board members who were so gracious as to help out, that I received information on Winifred's service. This information came by way of the British Red Cross Archives. She served as a member in London VAD Detatchment 150, at the Rosslyn Lodge Auxillery Military Hospital from the time of her enlistment in June 1916, until August 1917. Just wanted to say thanks again for everyone's help. Anyone have information on this VAD Detachment 150? How many nurses were assigned to a typical detachment?

[Tonym]

Trenchrat

Re Winifred Griffin. Did BRCS give any indication why she left Red Cross?

Tony

[Trenchrat]

Hey Tony,

No the BRCS records just said she was discharged sometime in in August of 1917. I'm not sure if the VAD's enlisted for the war or just certain lengths of time. She may have only volunteered for a one year period. The records didn't say what her specific duties were at Rosslyn Lodge nor did her photo album offer any clues.