Sir Arthur Murray LONGMORE

[stevedrew]

Forum,

I am trying to discover whether A M Longmore's various exploits were the first ever...specifically:

AML was the first person to fly a seaplane to land on water (Medway river in Sheerness Harbour), flying a Short biplane (S27) fitted with torpedo shaped airbags fitted to the undercarriage skids. This was in November 1911. Can anyone tell me whether this was the first in England? Was it the first ever instance in the world? What was the exact date?

With LCDR Samson, AML also flew a Short Biplane fitted with airbags off a runway structure erected above the foregun turret of HMS AFRICA whilst at anchor in Sheerness Harbour sometime in Jan 1912. Was this the first takeoff from a ship (or was that Eugene Ely?). Was this the first takeoff from an improvised runway (as opposed to a flat top specialised aircraft carrier? Who was the first, Samson or Longmore? What was the S/No of the machine and the exact date?

AML also flew from HMS HIBERNIA from a similar structure whilst she was steaming at 15 knots. Was this the first whilst in motion? Date? Machine? S/No?

In Jan 1912, AML flew a single float monoplane fitted with airbags on the wingtips (Mr Wakefield's machine) off the water at Lake Windermere. Was this the first? What type of machine and what serial number? What was the exact date?

I know that's a lot in one string, but all related. If you can answer any or all of these for me, I'll be very grateful.

Thanks in advance.

Steve Drew

[ionia]

The first aircraft to take off from one of H.M. Ships was a Short S.38 T2 piloted by Samson from a forecastle ramp leading forward from HMS AFRICA's "A" turret at 1420 on 10th January, 1912 whilst the ship was at anchor. Samson also made the first takeoff from a ship underway when he flew Short 38 T2 off HMS HIBERNIA on either 2nd or 9th May, 1912 (accounts differ). Eugene Ely had taken off from USS BIRMINGHAM, at anchor, on 10th November, 1910. Ely later made the first landing, on USS PENSYLVANIA (at anchor) on 18th January, 1911. However Samson's effort in taking off from HIBERNIA, underway, was a world first.

Longmore was the first RN pilot to drop an aerial torpedo (July, 1915).

Longmore's memoirs, "From Sea to Sky" are available on the second-hand book market and will confirm the above.

[stevedrew]

Ionia,

Thanks for your reply. The information I supplied in the original was in fact gleaned from "From Sea to Sky"...a great book...but it doesn't answer my questions.

You agree that AML was the first RN pilot to drop an aerial torpedo, but was he the first person of all services to do so? If not, who was and when?

Can anyone help with the other queries about dates and serial numbers of aircraft?

Thanks,

Steve Drew

[ionia]

Ionia,

Thanks for your reply. The information I supplied in the original was in fact gleaned from "From Sea to Sky"...a great book...but it doesn't answer my questions.

You agree that AML was the first RN pilot to drop an aerial torpedo, but was he the first person of all services to do so? If not, who was and when?

Can anyone help with the other queries about dates and serial numbers of aircraft?

Thanks,

Steve Drew

Your original message mentioned Longmore taking off from AFRICA and HIBERNIA. Please advise page references for these claims in "From Sea to Sky".

[stevedrew]

ionia,

The reference is from chapter 2, page 21 (in my copy).

I quote:

'What was to prove of far-reaching importance was the experiment carried out by Lieut-Commander Samson in January of 1912. This consisted of flying an ordinary Short biplane fitted with air bags off a runway structure erected above the fore gun turret on the forecastle of HMS AFRICA, which the Admiralty had authorised to be used for the purpose. The first test was done while the ship was at anchor in Sheerness Harbour, and in May of 1912 the performance was repeated off HMS HIBERNIA, a similar-class battleship to the AFRICA, whilst she was steaming at 15 knots."

So, I therefore apologise to all. apparently I misread the information and attributed it to AML, when clearly, it was Samson. The mistake I made was thinking LONGMORE had a crack at it as well, as he accompanied SAMSON on this venture, as did GERRARD and GREY (History of British Aviation, 1912. Chap 24, Flying at the Naval Review).

Thanks, ionia. I might have stumbled on thinking that the notes I had taken out of the book were correct in every way. I actually gleaned what I considered relevant information for my valued copy, and put the book away so as to not be constantly thumbing through it. Your query made me check the facts again. For that I thank you.

I'd still like to find out the remainder of the queries. Can anyone help with that?

Steve

[horatio2]

ionia,

The reference is from chapter 2, page 21 (in my copy).

I quote:

'What was to prove of far-reaching importance was the experiment carried out by Lieut-Commander Samson in January of 1912. This consisted of flying an ordinary Short biplane fitted with air bags off a runway structure erected above the fore gun turret on the forecastle of HMS AFRICA, which the Admiralty had authorised to be used for the purpose. The first test was done while the ship was at anchor in Sheerness Harbour, and in May of 1912 the performance was repeated off HMS HIBERNIA, a similar-class battleship to the AFRICA, whilst she was steaming at 15 knots."

So, I therefore apologise to all. apparently I misread the information and attributed it to AML, when clearly, it was Samson. The mistake I made was thinking LONGMORE had a crack at it as well, as he accompanied SAMSON on this venture, as did GERRARD and GREY (History of British Aviation, 1912. Chap 24, Flying at the Naval Review).

Thanks, ionia. I might have stumbled on thinking that the notes I had taken out of the book were correct in every way. I actually gleaned what I considered relevant information for my valued copy, and put the book away so as to not be constantly thumbing through it. Your query made me check the facts again. For that I thank you.

I'd still like to find out the remainder of the queries. Can anyone help with that?

Steve

Steve, You may first care to read the posting I made to your duplicated, identical questions posted under "War in the Air". Come back to us when you have read all the replies.

H2

[stevedrew]

h2,

I have seen your reply to my post. First of all, I'd like to apologise for duplicating the post, and taking up room, but I think everyone will agree, it has both Naval and Aviation interest. Not having visited here for some time, I was unsure where I would get the better response.

I have made an error in thinking that LONGMORE was responsible for the flights off AFRICA and HIBERNIA (see earlier post), but your information is all good, and helps clarify what I have been finding out about AM LONGMORE.

A truly amazing man.

Steve

[horatio2]

You agree that AML was the first RN pilot to drop an aerial torpedo, but was he the first person of all services to do so? If not, who was and when?

Thanks,

Steve Drew

The Italian Capitano Guidoni carried out the first torpedo drop from an aeroplane in 1911, flying a Farman bi-plane. The torpedo weighed 352 pounds.

[horatio2]

The aircraft that Longmore flew on the first torpedo drop on 28 Jul 1914 was a Short Admiralty 81 Type Folder Tractor Biplane Seaplane, Serial. No. 121.