Shanes Park Camp Posted 1 January , 2007 Share Posted 1 January , 2007 I have an envelope sent from Chateau-d`Oex by James Wishart to Private R.M. Wishart 7th Royal Scots at the Scottish Command Depot in Shanes Park Camp Randalstown. Unfortunately the letter and contents are missing. I would like to find out if James and RM Wishart were perhaps brothers and also any history of the POW Camp in Switzerland during WW1. I have looked at the CWGC records and found that James belonged to the 15th Battalion Canadian Infantry Service No. 27414. He died 18th Feb. 1917 and interred in Vevey (St. Martin`s) Cemetery grave Ref. 3. The reverse of the envelope reads - Despatched by British Prisoner of war in Switzerland. Private James Wishart 15th Canadians Chateau d`Oex Any other background information would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owilki1984 Posted 1 January , 2007 Share Posted 1 January , 2007 Hi, I am afraid I am a bit of a novice in researching myself, and have really only got experience of researching my great grandfather over the last year. The first place to start is, however, the Behind the Wire database that lists individuals included in the report of the Committee for the treatment of British POWs, conducted after the war. I have had a quick look at the database and a Pte Wishart of the Canadian Expeditionary Force is listed. That means he has given a report to the Committee and you should be able to access it through the National Archive. I have tried to include the link to the Behind the Wire entry. http://www.1914-1918.net/POW/details.php?surname=WISHART 1914-1918 You can dowload pages of the report from the National Archive website at £3:50 a pop. However when I tried to search the National archive online search of the reports, for a Wishart, it came back with no result. Experience has shown me that marrying up the Behind the Wire database with the actual report on the National Archive website is a little tricky, and to be honest I don’t know how to do it. Perhaps someone else can help you on this point. I don’t know if the Wishart mentioned is the right one, but since he was in the CEF like your guy it should be worth a look. Sorry that I don’t know all the technical details about accessing the information but I hope this helps you a bit anyway. Good look in your research. Oli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 1 January , 2007 Share Posted 1 January , 2007 Hi Jamez, The attestation papers for James can be found here: http://data4.collectionscanada.ca/netacgi/...mp;r=13&f=G Seems he was also a Scot., born Leith. You would need someone who has access to the 1901 Scottish census to see whether he is related to R.M. Hope this may help Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem Posted 1 January , 2007 Share Posted 1 January , 2007 The following information comes from James Wishart's service papers, I have not included any of the information that can be seen via the link posted by Kevin. James Wishart was captured between 24 and 29th April 1915. According to his papers he was shot in the left thigh and th lower part of the right leg. He was held in the Marine Lazarett, Veddell, Hamburg ws also mentioned. By February 1916 he was a prisoner in Gustrow, I have a card he sent to his mother in Leith from there where he mentions that his leg is always being dressed. He was transferred to Switzerland on 17th June 1916, his address was shown as the Hotel Beau Sejour, Chateaux D'oex. Some details about Chateau D'Oex Chateau d'Oex was described as follows in a report on the conditions in Swiss Internment Camps compiled in 1917: Chateau d'Oex is better than Mürren, but it is a miserable little saucer of a place, surrounded by hills, covered in slush at times, and thoroughly unsuitable for wounded men. Some of our men have been there for nearly a year, and no settled employment has been arranged for them. Experts from home have now come out with lordly schemes, involving the spending of some thousands of pounds. No scheme now seems to be looked at which does not involve vast expenditure, and no doubt magnificent results will be obtained in the months to come but in the meantime the discontent is increasing. How can anyone expect the six hundred odd idle men will be contented and happy? Why should our men be poked away like criminals, and put in places where work is impossible? Here there is a factory where boxes and the boards that go inside rolls of cloth are made by the French, who are paid proper wages, and everything is sent to France. Something of the same sort could be arranged for our men, although it might be difficult. We are blasting rock on top of a mountain 3000 ft above Chateau d’Oex, but we are not rushed. We come down on Saturday morning and go back on Monday morning, and get our food for the week. Others are sent to farms, but found the hours too long. Fifteen hours a day for 3 fr. seems excessive. By July 1917 there were approximately 1800 British prisoners interned in Switzerland. This information comes from The Prisoners 1914 - 1918 by Robert Jackson, published by Routledge in 1989. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanes Park Camp Posted 1 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2007 Hi, Oli. Kevin & Steve Many thanks indeed for your replies. All very much appreciated. I`m at a friends house just now but will be able to study the information in more detail when i return home tomorrow. The letter was posted 24th June 1916, one week after James` arrival in Switzerland & it`s interesting he had previously served 4 years with the 7th Royal Scots. I will certainly have a go at the Scottish Census to see if there is any mention of RM Wishart and will post up the results of the search. Have only been a member of this forum for just a few weeks now and i must say the amount of knowledge and quality of responces to querys are most impressive. Thanks again. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Busby Posted 5 February , 2007 Share Posted 5 February , 2007 Hi Jamez, I was stunned as I came across your message as I am James Wishart the grandson of the James Wishart to which you refer. I did not know about my grandfather until a few years ago as my father, who is also named James Wishart, went out of my life when I was very young and my mother has since passed. Fortunately an Aunt, who is the daughter of Margaret, my grandfather's wife before he died in the POW camp, contacted me a few years ago and brought me up to speed on my past! I went to the archives in Ottawa and retrieved his war records which showed the events leading up to his activities as well as the fact that he became a POW. I do know that he was born in Leith Scotland and that his mother's name was Mrs. R.M. Wishart. Perhaps that is the R.M. Wishart that your letter is addressed to, however it does not explain the "pte". I have not been able to determine if granpa had a brother. My Aunt is not sure also as her father, who's surname is Fockler, was the man that my grandfather's wife, her mother, married after grandpa's death. I also recently learned that I have two brothers and a sister who's father was my father James Wishart. We are all anxious to find out as much as we can. At any rate, I would love to make contact with you to find out what your relationship is to my Grandfather and maybe we can find out a few answers between us!! I must confess that I have not been able to register to this site as the validation e-mail does not get back to me. I am using my sister-in-law's user name to reply to you. If you wish to reply on the site I will certainly be watching!! If you wish to contact me directly my e-mail is: red.bev@sympatico.ca My address is: James Wishart 497 Howe Street Pembroke, Ontario K8A 2P6 Canada Looking forward to hear form you, Sincerly, James Wishart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Johnson Posted 8 February , 2007 Share Posted 8 February , 2007 Hi, The reason for not finding James on the NA online site is that he is not listed. The problem stems from the fact that a large section of the WO161 PRINTED reports is missing and this is in that section. When the NA re-indexed the reports the did it from the surviving PRINTED reports and therefore there was no Wishart. The LLT index was done from the original contemporary index to the PRINTED reports which included the missing ones. There is a possibility that the original UNPRINTED report still exists in FO383 but it is not in the index to that series as not all the reports are indexed. Some of the missing ones though are definately there. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgemeg Posted 10 March , 2007 Share Posted 10 March , 2007 I have an envelope sent from Chateau-d`Oex by James Wishart to Private R.M. Wishart 7th Royal Scots at the Scottish Command Depot in Shanes Park Camp Randalstown. Unfortunately the letter and contents are missing. I would like to find out if James and RM Wishart were perhaps brothers and also any history of the POW Camp in Switzerland during WW1. I have looked at the CWGC records and found that James belonged to the 15th Battalion Canadian Infantry Service No. 27414. He died 18th Feb. 1917 and interred in Vevey (St. Martin`s) Cemetery grave Ref. 3. The reverse of the envelope reads - Despatched by British Prisoner of war in Switzerland. Private James Wishart 15th Canadians Chateau d`Oex Any other background information would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc2 Posted 10 March , 2007 Share Posted 10 March , 2007 Interesting question-- Since Switzerland was not in the war, did they really hold any prisoners of war, or were they all technically "interned" rather than made prisoner? I was not aware that Switzerland legally held POWs... How does a non-belligerant nation legally take prisoners? You live and learn. Doc2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Johnson Posted 10 March , 2007 Share Posted 10 March , 2007 Doc 2, It was a strange arrangement where, with agreement between the warring nations and the neutral countries such as Switzerland, an equal number of prisoners of war were "exchanged" and held in the neutral country on behalf of the beligerants. These were nearly always the sick. Although the warring parties lost control of them the continuance of the system depended on them remaining "prisoners". The benefits were slight as the numbers involved were not enormous. For the British prisoners of war they received better treatment and food although the problem of boredom and inability to return home remained. Doug NB the costs were carried by the warring parties and not the host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Johnson Posted 15 July , 2007 Share Posted 15 July , 2007 The report by Wishart relating to Gustrow is in FO383 and I have a copy of it if anyone is interested. The report is probably an abridged copy as it only relates to Gustrow and not to the many hospitals he was in from April 1915 before he arrived at Gustrow on the 14th January 1916, leaving again for Switzerland at the end of May 1916. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wishbone Posted 3 August , 2007 Share Posted 3 August , 2007 Hi Doug, I would be interested in the Wishart report relating to Gustrow. James Wishart is my granfather who, unfortunately, I never met. James Wishart red.bev@sympatico.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem Posted 6 January , 2008 Share Posted 6 January , 2008 A photo of James Wishart's grave taken in August year. The plants in the cemetery were being replaced. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgemeg Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 Hi, I am afraid I am a bit of a novice in researching myself, and have really only got experience of researching my great grandfather over the last year. The first place to start is, however, the Behind the Wire database that lists individuals included in the report of the Committee for the treatment of British POWs, conducted after the war. I have had a quick look at the database and a Pte Wishart of the Canadian Expeditionary Force is listed. That means he has given a report to the Committee and you should be able to access it through the National Archive. I have tried to include the link to the Behind the Wire entry. http://www.1914-1918.net/POW/details.php?surname=WISHART 1914-1918 You can dowload pages of the report from the National Archive website at £3:50 a pop. However when I tried to search the National archive online search of the reports, for a Wishart, it came back with no result. Experience has shown me that marrying up the Behind the Wire database with the actual report on the National Archive website is a little tricky, and to be honest I don’t know how to do it. Perhaps someone else can help you on this point. I don’t know if the Wishart mentioned is the right one, but since he was in the CEF like your guy it should be worth a look. Sorry that I don’t know all the technical details about accessing the information but I hope this helps you a bit anyway. Good look in your research. Oli If you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midgemeg Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 If you can search back through 2007 you will find information regarding James Wishart. His relative in Canada was asking for information ( he had a similar envelope). I gave him some help as I have a few cards sent from the PoW Camp. If you cannot find the item please let me know and I will try to look it up. Fairhaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertigo Posted 12 June , 2020 Share Posted 12 June , 2020 Hi, an old posting ... but here is still an Addition: Anyone who is interested can find a postcard of James Wishart from his time in the prison camp in Guestrow in my web Project: James Wishart postcard Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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