"Toby" Mortars

[dorrie]

I came across the expression "Toby" Mortars today whislt looking at the History of the 1st and 2nd Battalion Sherwood Foresters in the Great War. I have never heard of them before . Any ideas as to what they are?

Thanks

Dorrie

[IanA]

They were Napoleonic mortars - museum pieces that were used in 1914 as a stopgap before the Stokes mortar had been invented.

[dorrie]

Thanks Ian. Any idea why they were called Toby Mortars?

Dorrie

[IanA]

They were named after the British officer whose bright idea it was to collect these antiques!

Ian

[Martin Bennitt]

The story's on here.

http://www.1914-1918.net/trenchmortars.htm

cheers Martin B

[dorrie]

Thanks for information,

Dorrie

[auchonvillerssomme]

Who was 'Toby' ?

Mick

[ianjonesncl]

An old thread.... however I came across a photo in the Imperial War Museum Collection which shows what they looked liked and thought it worth sharing.

From the Long Long Trail

The British Trench Mortar Batteries in the First World War - The Long, Long Trail (longlongtrail.co.uk)

 Forty ancient Coehorn mortars, firing spherical ammunition using black powder charges,were obtained from the French,and were actually fired at the battles at Neuve Chapelle and Aubers Ridge. They were nicknamed Toby mortars, after the officer whose initiative led to their acquisition.

Soldier of the Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry (Ox and Bucks LI) with an ancient trench mortar ('Toby' mortar) in a sandbagged trench © IWM Q 52982S

 

[battiscombe]

Some further information on the early experiments and 'Toby' can be found in an account  written by Lt George Maurice Churcher MC RGA "The Birth of the Trench Mortar Service" which appears in the RA Commemoration Book and also in 'The Gunner" - volume 4 I think.. [RA Museum copy can be found on OgilbyMuster]. This suggests the "Toby' may have been Colonel "Toby" Rawlinson working with a French Colonel Suchard in later November 1914..  Churcher recalls his 6" mortar dated to 1842 and the second - used by Captain Richard E Grosvenor RHA - dated to 1848..There was also a large 8" version called "Cuthbert" . These were used until the end of the year when new mortars arrived from England.. this was "Reginald"  which while used in training caused a disastrous accident which killed 2 officers and c.30 men of V Battery RHA. There were then 'Percys", also issued from Woolwich

this first unit seems to have served mainly with 8th Division, being supported by 5th Brigade RHA.. its original men being.. as far as i can determine:  Bdr (Cpl) William Evans Z Bty RHA17803, Gnr Albert Thomas Stroud Z Bty RHA26972 (kia 1915), Gnr John Tipple Z Bty RHA24351 and Gnr Reading Z Bty [probably  RHA37789? =James Charles Reading) together with 5 men from the recently arrived  119th Heavy Battery RGA who accompanied Lt Churcher: Cpl [later Sgt] William J Webb RGA9262  DCM, Gnr John King  RGA21316, Gnr Bertram Cave  RGA SR/678 and a Gnr O’Connor and a Gnr Roberts [I have yet to identify the last 2...] As far as I can tell this does not seem to have been allocated a number [any information welcome on that point] and these men, at least, were returned to their units in May 1915 after an action at Fromelles, after Gnr Stroud and an attached subaltern [Lt George Randall Fysh Sayle RFA..33Bty/33Bde RFA] were killed

.

 

 

Edited 26 January , 2023 by battiscombe

[ianjonesncl]

@battiscombe many thanks for the formation. I will check out the RA Commemoration Book.

The proliferation of different types (Toby / Cuthbert / Reginald / Percy)  starts to make sense. When researching into Trench Mortar development the early days I had seen references to many types and I been uncertain of their origins.