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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

What type of aircraft?


AndyHollinger

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WWIBRITISHWARPALNES19187X10.jpg

I received this photo, beautifully framed for my office wall. Unfortunately, I don't know the make or model of the airplanes involved ... can anyone help me here? Are they British or French?

Thanks in advance.

Andy

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Andy

The aeroplanes are definitely Sopwith Camels in British service (two American Camel squadrons used aircraft with British national markings, but the photographed machines don't have the unit markings of either the 17th or 148th Aero Sqns USAS). The two bars aft of the roundel could indicate No 46 Sqn RFC/RAF, as that was the unit's marking up to 22 March 1918, but the bars were usually marked closer to the tail. I have seen a photograph of a Camel from No 213 Sqn RAF (formerly the Seaplane Defence Squadron/No 13 Sqn RNAS at Dunkerque) with two bars, but it wasn't the official unit marking. Unfortunately, a censor has scratched out the aircraft serial numbers on the nearer machines, which make positive identification very difficult. If you can read a serial number on the fuselage or rudder of one of the background aeroplanes, it will greatly assist.

The roundels are the standard proportions for British Great War aircraft, ie 1 for red, 3 for white and 5 for blue. This was later changed to 1, 2 and 3, respectively.

I hope that this helps

Gareth

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There is a thinly fictionalised autobiography of Victor Yeates who flew with 46 squadron entitled "Winged Victory" and, more recently, Gordon Atkins has written a good biography of Yeates in "Winged Victor". I can't remember where I've put this one but I'm sure it contains photos.

Ian

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Hello Andy,

46 Sqn was formed at Wyton in April 1916, and flew first with Nieuport two-seaters and afterwards with Sopwith Pups, from spring 1917.

In November 1917 it changed the Pubs for Camels (Battle of Cambrai)

Captain D.R. MacLaren was the hightes scoring ace of 46 Sqn ( 54 victories).

Regards,

Cnock

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Andy

Air Vice-Marshall A S G Lee wrote of his time flying Pups and Camels in No 46 Sqn RFC in two books: No Parachute and Open Cockpit. There's a chapter or two about No 46 in his third book Flypast. Lee flew 222 hours, including 118 patrols, and was credited with 7 victories, while with the unit.

Regards

Gareth

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Any

Sorry, mea culpa. Obviously one shouldn't try to answer these questions when distracted by the festive season.

The Camels are No 73 Sqn after 22 March 1918. If the second aeroplane has an 'S' on the fuselage, then it's probably 'C' Flight.

No 73 Sqn was formed in July 1917 and went to France in January 1918. It served on the Western Front until the Armistice.

Gareth

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Anything interesting about 73 sqn? Lauren bought me them thinking they were Lafayette Esg. planes ... I knew they weren't but want to know something about the picture if it is to go in my office

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but want to know something about the picture if it is to go in my office

Hey Andy, it's a very nice photograph, one that I've not seen before. I think I probably speak for most of us to say we'd all like it on our office walls.

I'm by far and away not the best person to answer about RFC and latterly RAF Squadrons, but to start things off, my impression, rightly or wrongly, is that 73 was one of those squadrons that kept out of the limelight and nobody knows much about them. In France from January 1918, occupied on offensive patrols and ground attack work, 120 claimed victories, 10 pilots reaching "ace" status, most of which do not seem to be "popular" names - I have heard of Hubbard (as in old mother Hubbard).

Capt.OM Baldwin 16

Capt. GL Graham 13

LT WS Stephenson 12

Capt WH Hubbard 11

Lt EJ Lussier 11

2Lt RW Chandler 7

Lt N Cooper 6

Capt M LeBlanc Smith 6

Capt TS Sharpe 6

Capt GEH Pidcock 6

The above info from Above The Trenches.

Obviously a squadron that would benefit from someone carrying out a bit of research - they deserve their 15 minutes of fame.

Mike

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There's at least one other photo to go with this one. Both were taken by an official photographer during the retreat following 21 March 1918, hence the scratched out serials. The location was Humieres and the date 6 April 1918.

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In November 1917 it changed the Pubs for Camels

Must be a fictional squadron I can't imaginge any RFC unit giving up the pub! :D:P

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