Service Numbers

[Roy Evans]

Looking through 'Soldiers Died' for the South Staffordshire Regiment, I note that there are three series of service numbers, having four, five and six digits respectively. I believe the four digit numbers to be the 'original' (territorial force) numbers but what is the significance of the five digit series of which there are relatively few, and the six digit series? Any ideas?

[jim_davies]

Roy,

I'm far from an expert but believe that six digit numbers, ie 205666, or 245633 relate to the renumbering of the TF in 1916 or 1917.

Apparently you can tell (to a degree) which battalion a men might have served in.

Jim

[robwilliams]

Roy,

All TF battalions started numbering from 1. So, it is pretty easy to recognise early men. Five figure numbers started being issued after the war broke out, these numbers tended to be true regimental numbers in that I do not believe they were repeated (as distinct from earlier numbers which were in fact battalion numbers). The six figure numbers were the result of the renumbering in 1917, to distinguish TF men from the others. They were issued in blocks to each battalion, and so it can be worked out to which battalion a man originally belonged.

Rob

[CROONAERT]

Just to throw a spanner into the works,check out the service numbers of the original members of the 17th Bn.Manchester Regiment (2nd City - Manchester Pals). Most of these are 4 digit (usually beginning with an 8 or a 9). These were all early war (Kitchener's Army)volunteers,with not many ex-Terriers amongst them.Most of the (post July 1st) replacements had 5 digit numbers.

I know that number blocks were allocated in the 1930's (eg, numbers 1 - 294000 were all Royal Army Service Corps ,294001 -304000 were Houshold Cavalry,etc.,during WW2),but could it be possible that Regiments allocated numbers (for want of a better expression) on a "first come ,first served" basis?

Incidentally,my army number (infantry,late1980's -early 90's) was 8 digits, my Father's (infantry,1950's) was 7 digits, my Grandfather's (artillery,1937 -1940) was 6 digits,my other Grandfather's (infantry,1918) was 5 digits and my Great-grandfather's (cavalry,1898-1902) was 4 digits.

Dave

[kinnethmont]

The new number blocks allocated to the Staffords TF in 1917 were

5th Staffordshire Regt (South) 200001 - 240000

6th Staffordshire Regt (South) 240001 - 265000

[Roy Evans]

Thank you all for yoyr contributions.

Regards

Roy

[AndrewThornton]

All TF battalions started numbering from 1.  So, it is pretty easy to recognise early men.  

Hi Rob

Just to clarify, nearly all TF units began their numbering from 1 onwards from April 1908, but the 5th South Staffords, just to be difficult, kept the sequence that had used when they were the 2nd Volunteer Battalion. Recruits who joined after April 1908 had numbers starting from 65**, and these carried on until December 1914, when the number 9999 had been reached. From then on, new recruits to the 5th South received numbers from 1 onwards. This attitude could be said to be typical of a unit which had it's headquarters in Walsall!

[paul guthrie]

While researching the MGC man who died in and is buried in Kentucky I learned they started #s at 3000, have no idea why. At 3389 and 3390 he and his brother were early indeed.

The article is on the WFA site.

[Joe Sweeney]

Paul,

The Machine Gun Corps started numbering from 1. Men assigned to the Machine Gun Corps (Motors) had been assigned numbers before 3000. In January 1915 the MGC Motors had a strength of 496 men and this branch had an average monthly strength up to Dec 1918 of 2039.

The MGC Motors was formed in 1914 as a separate service, the MGC kept this number series as its own when the MGC (motors) was absorbed into the formal MGC after 11 October 1915.

Pte Ingram, was KIA in France on 8 June 1915, with a number 12.

Sergt W Brody, 33, MGC Motors died in East Africa on 31 Jan 1917.

Men are recorded with numbers in the 2600 range died in October 1915.

I believe that 3000 started the MGC Infantry and Cavalry because most of the previuos numbers were used by the MGC Motors pre 11 October 15 personnel.

But the MGC numbering series started at 1.

Joe Sweeney

[robwilliams]

Andrew,

I would expect nothing less from a battalion which 'won the war'! As an aside, the 1 Vol Bn S Staffords were obviously a funny bunch...the men from Handsworth fired a volley over a coffin in Handsworth town hall on 31.3.08 to signify the death of their battalion. They refused to join the new-fangled TF. As you say, very strange in Staffs!

Rob

[Jock Bruce]

OK - odd TF numbering.

In 1908 the Sutherland Highland Rifle Volunteers (who had avoided being designated a Vol Bn of the Seaforths) march off and 5th (Sutherland & Caithness Highland) Bn Seaforth Highlanders TF march on.

SHRV men who joined the 5th the early days (presumably during the period of grace allowed) retained their old SHRV numbers, but numbering quicky split into two distinct blocks, presumably because there were two County Territorial Associations involved.

Result is that:

Prewar enlistments from Sutherland in range from 1 - 700 with old SHRV men using their SHRV number

Prewar enlistments from Caithness in range 2000 - 3020 with old SHRV men using their SHRV number + 1800 i.e. SHRV 321 becomes 2121.

After outbreak of war

Lower number block expands from 701 up to 1099

1100 to 1999 never used by 5th

Higher number block expands ever onwards from 3020.

I could go on, but just wanted to make the point that the remote north of Scotland is much odder than Staffs.

Jock Bruce

[paul guthrie]

Thanks Joe. I got my information from the MGC Old Comrades Association but you are obviously right.