Terence Munson Posted 15 December , 2006 Share Posted 15 December , 2006 Hello, I believe one of the men I'm researching was lost when S.S. Normandy was sunk on 25th Jan. 1918. Can anyone help with information about her, where she was bound for and if possible, a list of casualties? Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamlash Posted 15 December , 2006 Share Posted 15 December , 2006 Hi, Dictionary of Disasters at Sea is basic . Owners: London & South Western Railway Co. Built: 1910 Builders: Earle's Co. Tonnage: 618 tons gross Dimensions: 192 X 29.2 X 14.1 Engines: 82 r.h.p. triple expansion 9 knots The steamship Normandy was torpedoed and sunk by a German submarine 8 miles E by N of Cape La Hague on January 25th 1918. Fourteen men were killed. The captain was among the survivors. Lloyd's War Losses doesn't give much more. Normandy, Br., 618 tons, Sunk by sub, 8 miles N.N.W. of Cherbourg Breakwater, Southampton for Cherbourg, general & mails. I'm sure others will be able to give you more, Regards, Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 15 December , 2006 Share Posted 15 December , 2006 Hello Terry, The SS Normandy, defensively armed, built 1910, 618 grt, was torpedoed and sunk 8 miles ExN from Cap de la Hague, France 49.46N, 01.44W by German submarine U 90 with the loss of 14 of her crew. She was carrying a general cargo and mail on voyage from Southampton to Cherbourg and was owned by London & South Western Railway Co of Southampton. 12 of the men who died are commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial: BATTRICK, P, Able Seaman BUDDEN, F J, FREDERICK JOHN, Chief Engineer CLOW, W E, WILLIAM ERNEST, Able Seaman GLOUSKOFSKY, A, ALEXANDER, Able Seaman HOLLOWAY, B J, BERTIE JOHN, Fireman INGRAM, J S, Able Seaman MULGRAVE E, Assistant Steward OLIVER, T, THOMAS, Fireman PAGE, S L, SIDNEY LEOPOLD, Fireman PLEACE, T E, THOMAS EDWARD, Chief Officer WAUGH, W H, WALLACE, HELIER, Steward YOUNG, W H, WALTER HENRY, Fireman Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 16 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2006 Donald and David, Many thanks for your quick replies and the information posted - My man (RNR) was on board taking passage on return from leave. He was feared to have lost his life when S.S. Normandy was sunk and later that year (Aug), presumed for official purpose that he had on that day (25/1/1918) and noted on his record as "Discharged dead" from another vessel, HMT Daniel Harrington this vessel is listed as his unit text on his CWGC casualty details. He is not one of the twelve listed by David, I had wondered if he would be on the list of lives lost on S.S. Normandy. He served as Charles Edward Orsborn, I think an alias. His CWGC details are to James Arthur Orsborn, and an award of £30 was paid to J.A.s widow H. Orsborn 1/1/23. A tangled web indeed but another piece in the puzzle. Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 16 December , 2006 Share Posted 16 December , 2006 Terry, this is your man from Admiralty records. ORSBORN, JAMES, A, 2nd HAND, RNR, D A 1117, DANIEL HARRINGTON, 25/01/2018. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 16 December , 2006 Share Posted 16 December , 2006 Hello Further on NORMANDY's loss casualties. There were two DAMS gunner and a naval officer in passage. DAWSON GILBERT S. L/SEAMAN, RNVR TYNESIDE Z 9997 S.S. NORMANDY 25/01/18 SUBMARINE ACTION ENGLISH PATRICK A.B., RNVR MERSEY Z 1108 S.S. NORMANDY 25/01/18 SUBMARINE ACTION STEVENS JOSIAH H. TY/ASST PAYMASTER, RNR S.S. NORMANDY 25/01/18 SUBMARINE ACTION O/P PRESIDENT All best don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 16 December , 2006 Share Posted 16 December , 2006 Hello Terry Just wanted to thank you for the information on Orsborn's death. I had known in he had been killed in action while assigned to DANIEL HARRINGTON, but was never able to determine the exact circumstance. Thank you again. All best don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 17 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2006 David and Don(kin47) - Thanks for the extra information, this one has been a real eye opener. Don I'm only to pleased to contribute when I can - I've had so much good stuff from the Forum. Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lörscher Posted 19 December , 2006 Share Posted 19 December , 2006 Hello everyone, file ADM 137/4009 from National Archives gives the numbers lost for NORMANDY: 14 crew and 13 passengers dead, 6 crew and 7 passengers rescued Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 20 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 December , 2006 Thanks Oliver, The detail on S.S. Normandy, received from the Forum members was about as good as it gets! Thanks everyone, Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submarine Posted 29 December , 2006 Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Hi Sorry i am late with this reply. I am researching a man lost on S.S.Normandy , Walter Waugh. Just thought you may like to know that U90 also sank the USS President Lincoln ,32,500 ton American military transport ship, 600 miles from Brest,France. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 29 December , 2006 Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Colin, your man from the Tower Hill Memorial: WAUGH,W H, WALLACE HELIER, Steward, Mercantile Marine, Normandy (Southampton.) S.S, 25-Jan-18, aged 45. Drowned, as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine. Son of the late John Wallace Waugh, and Eliza Waugh; husband of Florence Maud Waugh (nee Le Coig), of 9, Suffolk Avenue, Southampton. Born in Jersey, Channel Islands. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submarine Posted 30 December , 2006 Share Posted 30 December , 2006 Thanks Oliver, The detail on S.S. Normandy, received from the Forum members was about as good as it gets! Thanks David. Is it possable to get a copy of his M/Marine record ? at his age i feel sure he must have served pre-war.any idea were it will be kept ?. Also i have not been able to find a photo of the SS Normandy any help there please. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnrw75 Posted 30 December , 2006 Share Posted 30 December , 2006 I have an ashtray from the ship SS Normandy. A relative of my wife traveled to France before the war. johnrw75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 25 January , 2007 Share Posted 25 January , 2007 Hello Further on NORMANDY's loss casualties. There were two DAMS gunner and a naval officer in passage. DAWSON GILBERT S. L/SEAMAN, RNVR TYNESIDE Z 9997 S.S. NORMANDY 25/01/18 SUBMARINE ACTION ENGLISH PATRICK A.B., RNVR MERSEY Z 1108 S.S. NORMANDY 25/01/18 SUBMARINE ACTION STEVENS JOSIAH H. TY/ASST PAYMASTER, RNR S.S. NORMANDY 25/01/18 SUBMARINE ACTION O/P PRESIDENT All best don Don, there were quite a few soldiers too - although 1919 is erroneously recorded as the year of this man's death. SIBLEY, ARTHUR WILLIAM Initials: A W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: London Regiment Unit Text: 1st/20th Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 25/01/1919 Service No: 632938 Additional information: Son of Benjamin James and Elizabeth Sibley, of 2, Violet Terrace, Colham Green, Hillingdon, Middx. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE the others are: CANNELL, GEORGE JOHN Initials: G J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 13th Reinforcement Coy. Railway Operating Div. Age: 26 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 256609 Additional information: Son of John and Elizabeth Cannell, of 125 Towson St., Everton, Liverpool. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE DONOUGHIE Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: Military Police Corps Unit Text: Military Foot Police Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: P/9567 Additional information: Husband of Rose Ann McDonough, of Zetland Place, Lumphinnans, Fifeshire. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE GUBBINS, RICHARD ROLLS Initials: R R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Colonel Regiment/Service: Somerset Light Infantry Secondary Regiment: General Staff Secondary Unit Text: attd. to A.A.Q.M.G. Staff Age: 49 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Awards: DSO Additional information: Son of the late Rev. Richard Shard Gubbins; husband of Agnes Edith Gubbins, of The Old Hall, Rockcliffe, Cumberland. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE HARKER Initials: E W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Durham Light Infantry Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn. Secondary Regiment: Labour Corps Secondary Unit Text: transf. to (124604) 196th Coy. Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 36700 Additional information: Husband of E. A. Harker, of 2, Campbell Avenue, Brighton St., Hull. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE JOHNSTONE Initials: G F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 13th Reinforcement Coy. Railway Operating Div. Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 450011 Additional information: Husband of E. M. Johnstone, of 53, King's Rd., Cardiff. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE MARSDEN Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Training Reserve Unit Text: 64th Bn. Secondary Regiment: Labour Corps Secondary Unit Text: transf. to (125877) 196th Coy. Age: 37 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: TR4/28562 Additional information: Son of Isaac and Ann Marsden, of 95, Bayley St., Stalybridge, Cheshire. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE MASTERS Initials: N C Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 13th Reinforcement Coy. Railway Operating Div. Age: 24 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 487092 Additional information: Son of Harry and Emma Masters, of Upper Parkstone, Poole, Dorset. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE MAYS, CHARLES CECIL WILDMAN Initials: C C W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Royal Army Medical Corps Age: 39 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Additional information: Son of Charles Albert and Laura Emily Mays, of 182, School Rd., Sheffield. M.R.C.S. Eng., L.R.C.P., Lond. Born at Sheffield. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE PEARSON Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sapper Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: 13th Reinforcement Coy. Railway Operating Div. Age: 27 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 440097 Additional information: Son of Alfred and Catherine Pearson; husband of Annie Pearson, of 8, Audrey St., Lily Lane, Moston, Manchester. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE PICKSTOCK Initials: A E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers Unit Text: 3rd Bn. Secondary Regiment: Labour Corps Secondary Unit Text: transf. to (125692) 196th Coy. Age: 39 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 63944 Additional information: Son of Thomas and Hannah Pickstock, of Marple, Cheshire; husband of Sarah Elizabeth Pickstock, of 4, Holme St., Hyde, Cheshire. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE RATCLIFF, ARTHUR Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Royal Army Ordnance Corps Age: 27 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: O/7840 Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Ratcliff, of 120, Moorland Rd., Stockport, Cheshire. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE SHOWELL Initials: A R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Warrant Officer Class I (Superintending Clerk) Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers Unit Text: Misc. Establishment (Transportation) Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 2315 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE TAYLOR Initials: J J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: The King's (Liverpool Regiment) Unit Text: 23rd Bn. Secondary Regiment: Labour Corps Secondary Unit Text: transf. to (125714) 196th Coy. Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 83745 Additional information: Husband of E. Taylor, of 2, Camden House, Blackpool. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE WILSON, JOHN Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) Unit Text: "E" Coy. 2nd/7th Bn. Secondary Regiment: Labour Corps Secondary Unit Text: transf. to (124120) 196th Coy. Age: 33 Date of Death: 25/01/1918 Service No: 5127 Additional information: Son of Mrs. G. S. W. Stevenson (formerly Wilson), of 28, Hill Place, Kirkcaldy, Fifeshire, and the late Mr. H. Wilson. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: "Normandy" Memorial. Cemetery: STE. MARIE CEMETERY, LE HAVRE Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 25 January , 2007 Share Posted 25 January , 2007 Andy, Were these troops that you have listed part of a larger group? Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 26 January , 2007 Share Posted 26 January , 2007 Andy, Were these troops that you have listed part of a larger group? Best wishes David No - they are the ones commemorated on the 'Normandy Memorial' in Ste. Marie Cemetery, Le Havre. I presume that there will have been survivors although I have no idea of numbers or names. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submarine Posted 26 January , 2007 Share Posted 26 January , 2007 Walter Waugh ,who died on the NORMANDY is remembered on the Tower Hill memoral and not the Le Havre Memorial ? is this because he was Merchant Navy ,and not in the Army ?. Having said that there are a number of other Merchant Seaman on the Le Havre Memorial. Strange ,any thoughts : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 26 January , 2007 Share Posted 26 January , 2007 Colin, WAUGH, WALLACE HELIER, was a Steward on the Normandy and therefore part of the Mercantile Marine. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 27 January , 2007 Share Posted 27 January , 2007 Andy, thank you for your response. The men you listed are an assorted bunch, so I assume they were returning from leave. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 3 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2007 No - they are the ones commemorated on the 'Normandy Memorial' in Ste. Marie Cemetery, Le Havre. Andy. Andy - I've just made it back to the land of the living! Can you tell me if my man - James Arthur Orsborn / Alias Charles Edward Orsborn is commemorated on the 'Normandy Memorial' in Ste. Marie Cemetery, Le Havre. I have his CWGC Portsmouth Naval Memorial details. Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 5 February , 2007 Share Posted 5 February , 2007 Andy - I've just made it back to the land of the living! Can you tell me if my man - James Arthur Orsborn / Alias Charles Edward Orsborn is commemorated on the 'Normandy Memorial' in Ste. Marie Cemetery, Le Havre. I have his CWGC Portsmouth Naval Memorial details. Cheers Terry No, he isn't. Missing Royal Navy men are always commemorated at either Portsmoutrh, Plymouth or Chatham (in WW1). The 'Normandy Memorial' is for the the non-naval fatalities from the sinking. In WW2 such deaths would have led to commemoration on the Brookwood Memorial. Best wishes. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 5 February , 2007 Share Posted 5 February , 2007 Andy, thank you for your response. The men you listed are an assorted bunch, so I assume they were returning from leave. Best wishes David You are welcome. I would guess they were returning from leave although there are a few from the same unit so they could have been replacements. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 5 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2007 No, he isn't. Missing Royal Navy men are always commemorated at either Portsmoutrh, Plymouth or Chatham (in WW1). The 'Normandy Memorial' is for the the non-naval fatalities from the sinking. Best wishes. Andy. Thanks Andy - Thought I'd ask, My man was a passenger returning from leave and a Promotion to Second Hand RNR, awarded five days before. Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 5 February , 2007 Share Posted 5 February , 2007 Hello Terry, from Portsmouth Memorial: ORSBORN, Second Hand, JAMES ARTHUR, 1117DA. H.M. Trawler "Daniel Harrington.". Royal Naval Reserve. Killed in action 25th January 1918. Age 39. Son of John and Marie Orsborn, of 8, Adam and Eve Gardens, Great Yarmouth; husband of Hughina Orsborn, of Cluny Place, 17, Ann St., Aberdeen. 31. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now