1st & 2nd Bns Cameronians - 1902 to 1914

[Tom A McCluskey]

Hi all

Doe anyone have any pictures of the 1st & 2nd Battalions Cameronians (Scottish Rifles), wearing Service Dress between the years 1902 to the end of 1914?

In advance, Many Thanks!

Aye

Tom McC

[Tom A McCluskey]

Hi all again,

The reason why I am after this is I believe that the regular battalions wore the normal service dress jacket (1902 -1914), without a cut-away - or a lowland version of this. I am happy to be corrected on this issue if this is wrong.

Aye

Tom McC

[barrieduncan]

Tom,

I found plenty of pics of the 1st and 2nd Battalions between the dates you specified; problem was they were all either wearing review order or it was photographs of officers. I think we have some of the 1st Bn in France in 1914; I'll post some up tomorrow and you can see if they are any use.

Barrie

[Joe Sweeney]

Tom,

There is a picture of the 2nd Battalion on parade in Malta in 1913 in the book "Morale".

I believe they are wearing KD and not SD, if they are wearing KD then they all have the Highland Pattern KD Frock (Cutaway). They are also wearing trews. If they are wearing SD jackets then they have all had them modified to cutaway.

FYI unlike the KD Frock which was made in a Highland Pattern and Universal Pattern the SD jacket was made only in a universal pattern. It would not be until September 1929 that the Service Dress jacket would have a cutaway pattern approved/introduced, “Jackets ORs, Highland and Scottish Regiments”.

What I cant say is whether cutting away the SD jacket was normal/unit practice prior to the war. Although if they had Highland Pattern KD in Malta it would lead me to believe that SD jackets might have followed.

When SD was introduced in 1902 cutting away of the front was prohibited, but within less than a year the practice was authorized by the WO. There is actually quite a bit of correspondence on this decision making process in the NA.

Joe Sweeney

[Tom A McCluskey]

Barrie & Joe,

Many thanks for the replies

I found an interesting article in General Jack's Diary. He serves in the 1st then 2nd Cameronians, off to command the 2nd West Yorks, injured at the 3rd Ypres, then goes back to the 1st Bn the Cameronians.

He is a bit shocked at how the battalion has deteriorated. Very few of the old regulars left, also traditions and standards have slipped - when you read the book you'll see how meticulous he is to traditions, drills, skills, tactics, and care for his men.

Anyway, page 246, here is the article:

'The afternoon is taken up with detailed inspections of everything. The whole Battalion has been greatly upset by tactless handling, a minor example being the alteration of the tunics of this old Lowland Regiment to a Highland pattern. Unless efficency demands it, one must never change the customs of a regiment to which one is temporarily attached for duty.'

I am assuming the Cameronians did not have the cut-away at the before the war and at the start of the war on Service Dress tunics?

Hope this is of interest

Aye

Tom McC

[barrieduncan]

Hi Tom,

It is a fascinating book - well worth a read. I'm afraid I haven't had a chance to look for photographs today - I'll see if I can come up with something before I leave, if not I'm afraid it will need to wait till Monday.

Would photographs of officers do?

Barrie

[barrieduncan]

Tom, a couple of pics from 1914 which will hopefully allow you to answer your question.

[barrieduncan]

The one above possibly isn't too clear - this one may be better but the figures are a bit smaller.

Hope these help.

Barrie

[Tom A McCluskey]

Barrie,

Brilliant! answers my suspicions suitably

Thanks very much

Aye

Tom McC

[Joe Sweeney]

Tom,

Great info.

Based on that I would say that pre-war that Regiment did not modify the SD Jacket by policy.

This also would not be at all contradicting the wear of the Highland pattern KD frocks either. The Highland pattern KD has the notation for issue: "Kilted and trewed; all ranks; round front." Whereas the SD jacket does not.

Thanks

Joe