Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 11 December , 2006 Share Posted 11 December , 2006 Mates I have come across a hand drawn map produced by this fellow. It seems as though he was with the ACC on 14th Nov 1917 and took part in an action around Rubin, Yebna and Richon. Here is the map: I am wondering if anyone has any details of this action. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 12 December , 2006 Share Posted 12 December , 2006 Bill, If you've seen the movie "Kingdom of Heaven" with orlando in it you may know the real name of Yebna as Godfrey of Ibelin held that area for the Crusaders. But the town of Yebna had fallen well before the date you give (14th Nov) as the town was attacked by 52nd Div 155Bde with the Camel Bde on the far left flank. The map of this area in the BOWH gives that the 3rd LH Bde was with the 155 Bde at that time but the BOWH makes no mention that I can find of the capture? Only word is post capture when the Yeomanry Div is brought up to attack El Maghar around the 13th/14th Nov. The Turkish 3rd Div held the area of Yebna but was falling back fighting as it went, this Div with the 7th Turkish Div formed the 22nd Corps. 8th Army. I'll see what the Camel Corps mentions in its records of this time. Cheers S.B PS Bill Did a quick check on your man trying to confirm him if he was British or aussie. He is an aussie and embarked with the ACo/5Bn as Sgt he was prom 2/Lt and served in France with the 1 Cyc Bn and later in BSqn/XXII Corps LH and 13th LHR. The question is what would a officer serving in the LH France *ACC* (Aust Corps Cav or Aust Cyc Corps?) during Nov 1917 know of a map drawn by him in Palestine at the same time? The plot thickens S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 12 December , 2006 Share Posted 12 December , 2006 Steve G'day mate You have now picked up the mystery - what was an ACC doing in Palestine recording a battle that occurred thousands of miles away from where he should have been. And most irritatingly - his service record is not online. I was hoping that ACC Btn would also translate to "Australian Camel Corps" ... I am a tad bit perplexed by this matter. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 12 December , 2006 Share Posted 12 December , 2006 Steve Of course there could be another explanation. Here is the notation at the top right hand corner of the map. If you have a look at the statement, it says it was donated by him - it might not have been drawn up by him but perhaps a cousin, brother or brother in law. I notice the other two LH based MacLennans appear to be brothers and also were in France at the time. Anyway, that's just a thought. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 12 December , 2006 Share Posted 12 December , 2006 Re: The McGrath history. Not all may be as it seems. Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wroclaw Posted 12 December , 2006 Share Posted 12 December , 2006 Bill As usual, you are full of surprises! This map shows some portion of the battlefield of Ayun Kara, where the CC relieved the exhausted NZMR at the late hours of Nov. the 14th. Its already late for me to get concentrated, but it seems he shows the ridge where the AMR were smashing the Turkish counter attack. As noted, the road on the front is the Rechovot (Deiran)- Rishon road, while the road upper that that, is the Gaza-Jaffa road, in this case called Yavne-Rubin road after the nearest locations. Do you know to what these numbers refer to? • the 630/720 hill photos needs to be processed. It is hard to determine where exactly the posts were, especially with 720. I'll keep you informed when I'll get to a conclusion as for where is what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 12 December , 2006 Share Posted 12 December , 2006 Bill, The Camel Bde has the following in the 2nd Bn's WD. "11 Nov- holding posts at Abu Dilakh 12 Nov - at Julis 13 Nov The Bn procecced with Bde to Esdud leaving Julis at 0200. After a short halt the march was resumed towards Yebna, the Bn being on the left of the 6th Mounted Bde and the advance of the Bde, who followed behind. After occupition of Yebna by the Yeomanry Div the Bn took up postion of readiness in support of the Middlesex Yeomanry for an attack upon Zernuka and remained in this postion during the night 13/14, it being the intention to attack at dawn. The enemy however evacuated the village during the night." Cheers S.B We must have posted arount the same time so 'Ill add what he mentioned. 14th Nov- At 0900 the Bn took up a line Zernuka - Kubeibe (both inclusive), No 7 (Company) holding village of Zernuka with 10 Co in suport, 9Co holding the village of Kubeibe with 8 Co in support, the NZMR being on the left of the Bn line. About 1500 the NZMR were heavily attacked and No 9 Co moved up in suport of them. The attack died down towards nightfall. 15th Nov - The Bn at 1000 procceded with Bde via Naaneh to Abu Shusheh, the Bde taking over the village from the Yeomanry Div who captured it." S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Bill, Just to add; From the 3rd and 4th Bn's ICC; "The march was continued next day to Julis where the Bde rejoined the DMC. Another night march brought us to Esdud and on the 13th Dec with the Yeomanry Div . The Bde moved forward in the attack on Yebna where little resistance was meet and two companies of the 4th Bn were left to guard the sand dunes along the coast, 3Bn proceeded the following morning to Akir to suport the Yeomanry Div". From WD of the 4th Anzac Bn; "11 Nov 1430 marched out for Julis arriving 0130 (12th Nov) bivouaced for night. 12th Nov Ordered to stand to 13 Nov 0100 marched out for Esdud arriving at 0500 advanced in suport of 2Bn on Yebna at 0930 during approch on Yebna 16Co were shelled with HE with one shell landing in centre of company 1 KIA 5 WIA and 9 camel destroyed. 17Co and 18Co on outpost in sandhills NW of Yebna to the rear, 15Co guarding prisoners. (Tpr John Budge 16Co/4Bn KIA, the WIA not identified but possible Cpl C Williams, Tpr's A Duncan, E marshall, E Martyn and R Palmer) 14th Nov the 4Bn remained at Yebna camels watered and rations drawn". (brackets are mine) Just to finish I can find no Ref to the 3rd LH Bde being around the area at that time, so the map (in the BOWH) showing that Bde in the area is not explained, more your area I think. Cheers S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Gal G'day mate Thanks for the additional identification. Terry Kinlock might be able to answer your question regarding the numbers on the hills. That map appears as it is - without any context - as it is part of a grab bag file full of disparate maps dealing with Palestine. As for Hill 720, hope that Harry Bostock stuff helped. I am looking forward to seeing the pix. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Steve G'day mate Thanks for filling in the blanks. It adds to the context. So if this map was produced by someone in the 2nd ICC Btn - why did it end up in the hands of MacLennan? Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Bill, The 2Bn was the British Camel Bn. Of cause when was the map given to the AWM. MacLennan was a Victorian officer and could have picked it up from any Camel Corps officers there post war. I still think the ACC on the map refers to his service in the Aust Cyc Corps not that its from the Aust Camel Corps. Cheers S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Mates Talking of Mughar, I have put a copy of the official versin of the Battle of Mughar drawn up just after the action. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wroclaw Posted 13 December , 2006 Share Posted 13 December , 2006 Gal G'day mate Thanks for the additional identification. Terry Kinlock might be able to answer your question regarding the numbers on the hills. That map appears as it is - without any context - as it is part of a grab bag file full of disparate maps dealing with Palestine. As for Hill 720, hope that Harry Bostock stuff helped. I am looking forward to seeing the pix. Cheers Bill Bill If indeed this map is hand drawn and the original is what you have, then I guess no one could know what those numbers refer to… It seems that who ever drew this map, intended to show the situation at the stage of the Turkish counter attack. The hills are the front held by the AMR and possibly by WMR. Since it is obviously with no scale or proportion, we could not know to what location those numbers refer and for what reason. The greatest help with the 720/630 I actually got from a second reading of your post at the ALHforum. You have mentioned a stone house sheltering snipers some 2km north east of 630, and since I could easily tell which house was that (called "Iftis/puteis fortress"), I know where to locate hill 630. As for 720 – I'm waiting for Christmas to be over when I was promised to get a scan of some pages of a book about the Middlesex Y by a member of their association (you know him…). Those should include valuable data regarding the post. The various hills I've seen were all shelled, as evident from the large pieces of shrapnel, but I've found no other indicative clue. Hope to solve this in 2 weeks and to upload the pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 14 December , 2006 Share Posted 14 December , 2006 Bill, Is it possible for you to post that map you have of the air attack on the El Tine Airdrome, but so it covers the area we are talking about? Just so I/we can get a look at the total area we are talking about. Hopefully it will have the names of the towns we are discussing Cheers S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 14 December , 2006 Share Posted 14 December , 2006 Steve G'day mate This is the map of the area described by the hand drawn map. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 14 December , 2006 Share Posted 14 December , 2006 Steve This is the area map with the red square being the area of operations detailed in the larger maps. Hope this helps Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 14 December , 2006 Share Posted 14 December , 2006 Here's an enlargement of the red square in the above map: Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now