mrfish Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Hi, Everyone I have a 1915 Star (only) issued to: M2 106134 SGT A. R. HOPE 1ST. A.M.B. M.M.G.S. I found his MIC today (attached). This says he is "Ineligible for 1915 Star"! Any ideas why I have it then? Issued in error? How, when entry into theatre clearly shows 7.2.1916? Is there likely to be a Roll entry for this medal? Is that what it says above the bit that says he was Commissioned...R ? F roll RASC 101/B73 - 7418 Also, does anyone have any idea about his unit? Anything else anyone can tell me about Alexander Hope would be greatly appreciated. mrfish ><(((((*> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Because the 1914-15 star was only given to those who were in specific theatres of war pre 1916 and post end of November 1914. Your man first entered a theatre of war in Feb. 1916 and therefore does not qualify. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Check for a further index card;he may well have qualified{if you have the Star itself} prior to that,try a search using just his number & surname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 HB The alternative of course could be that whilst the authorities decided he did not qualify for the Star Mr Hope thought differently and awarded one to himself. MrFish Can you post an image of the medal in question (reverse side)? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfish Posted 23 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Can you post an image of the medal in question (reverse side)? Andy Here you go...I've found 2 other MIC's for the chap, but both are for a MID in Feb 1917. Private ASC on one and Private (acting Sergeant) ASC on the other. I assume that one of the references on the MIC is to an ASC Roll? Do you think the fact that the MIC actually states "Ineligible for 1915 Star" means that it was isued in error? Otherwise, why bother to mentionit? ><(((((*> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 It does look to be engraved rather than officially impressed leading one to suspect Andy's theory of self award to be correct.sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 I'm not really an expert but it doesn't look right to me. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Mr thicky here, an ASC star would have just that on it so what does 1ST. A.M.B. M.M.G.S. stand for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfish Posted 23 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Mr thicky here, an ASC star would have just that on it so what does 1ST. A.M.B. M.M.G.S. stand for 1st Armoured Motor Battery, Motorised Machine Gun Section. His February 1917 MID IC states that he is attached to the unit from the A.S.C. ><(((((*> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 1st Armoured Motor Battery, Motorised Machine Gun Section. His February 1917 MID IC states that he is attached to the unit from the A.S.C. ><(((((*> I think what Welshdoc is trying to say is that if the medal were named correctly it would simply state "ASC". Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen4256 Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Agree that the naming looks unofficial and that the unit details are not usually shown on ASC stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblake66 Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 It does look to be engraved rather than officially impressed leading one to suspect Andy's theory of self award to be correct.sorry Also, the bronze color you see on the ring is the correct color for the entire back of this medal. It could be a trick of the flash but the silvery color makes me think the entire back side was sanded off at some point. The sword hilts appear to have a little of the bronze color remaining but this is the reverse of what you would expect from wear. To me, the MIC restating the fact that he wasn't entitled to the star implies that this was officially challenged. If this is the case there may some other avenue to research? Possibly someone else knows of another example of contested entitlement? Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliecoco Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Hi, I would not have a clue about whether his medal was correct, or not. The best bet I think is a visit to Kew to hopefully see his service records. They would be a far better bet, unless he served beyond 1922. Then you might be able to ascertain whether he was entitled to this medal or not. Alie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 Maybe its my eyes but...., directly to the right of the name HOPE, it looks like there may be some faint lettering there? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfish Posted 24 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2006 Hello Again I had a look at the medal last night. It is definitely engraved and not stamped. I also compared it with another 15 Star and it does appear thinner. My guess now is that he thought he should have had one and so had one privately done. I'd still like to know what the Roll reference is above the Commission date though? For info, I bought this medal is 1976 from a shop called "Coins and Curios" in Caldmore (pronounced Carma) in Walsall, West Midlands. It cost me 50p, which was probably a week’s pocket money (I was 8!). The week before I had bought my very first medal, a Victory Medal to the R.A., also for 50p. I had never really looked at the medal until this week, but it's actually pretty obvious now you've all kindly pointed it out, that it's been altered. And the shop owner must have known this when he sold it to that sweet little 8 year old, 30 years ago! My only consolation is that he's probably dead now! So what's it worth then, anything? mrfish ><((((*> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armoured Farmer Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 I'd still like to know what the Roll reference is above the Commission date though? mrfish ><((((*> He was commissioned on the date given. As he served in the ranks his medal entitlement was automatically worked out and he is entered on the Rank and File roll RASC 101 B73 page 7418. On that roll it will record the fact of his commission, which would halt the production of the BW&VM for him as a Sgt. As an officer he would have to claim his medals, which it appears he did, apparently claiming a 1915 Star, and the BW&VM are recorded on Officers Roll ASC Officers 1 page 215E. He was Mentioned in Despatches, indicated by the annotaion of Emblems. Regards Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priv Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 As has already been said it is not an official issue but a self award. However, it appears that with his service in the MMGS and commission adn MID - there is an awful lot to research on this man. Without you buying this 30 years ago his service and participation may have never come to light. Enjoy ythe research... Priv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armoured Farmer Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 mrfish, This is probably his service record: - WO 374/34580 HOPE, Lieut A R 1915-1923; 1938 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...;accessmethod=0 The 1938 date suggests correspondence on some subject in that year. Regards Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 As has already been said it is not an official issue but a self award. However, it appears that with his service in the MMGS and commission adn MID - there is an awful lot to research on this man. Without you buying this 30 years ago his service and participation may have never come to light. Enjoy ythe research... I agree. To me it is certainly 50p well spent and opens up the avenue to an awful lot of interesting research. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 As for value ? a single 1915 star £15-25 renamed half of that but this one is interesting so probably a little more. So overall not a bad buy. Also the guy who sold it in 1970 probably had no idea it was renamed or not if he was in a curio shop. gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfish Posted 24 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2006 This is probably his service record: - WO 374/34580 HOPE, Lieut A R 1915-1923; 1938 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...;accessmethod=0 Thanks, Hugh I will request the papers from Kew and will post something here about his career once i get them. ><(((((*> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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