tjec Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Hi, Does anybody have information about the Lancs & Cheshire RGA Territorial Units? Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Norman The only bit of info I have is that 39 Siege battery was formed on the 10 June 15, the nucleus of which came from Lancs & Cheshire RGA Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Norman, You do not say what your interest is but you are the second member this month to express an interest in the TF Lancashire and Cheshire RGA. Based at 19 Low Hill Liverpool with Nos 1, 2, 3, and 4 Companies also at Low Hill. Also comprising No’s 5 and 6 Companies at Riverview Road, Seacombe, and Nos 7 and 8 Companies at Barrow-in-Furness. I did not know about the 39 SB but elements also formed the 525 Siege Battery RGA that went out to the Western Front in June 1918. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 21 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Thank you Stuart for the 39SB input. Dear Paul, My interest is my Grandfather TJE Courtie, he enlisted in the L & C RGA in 1908/9 (at work so not all details available) I do know that on 16.1.16 he transferred to L&C Crosby Battery, then on 1.9.16 he transferred to 232 'C' Battery and left for France on 18.1.17. After serving with 232 and later with 196 SB, he was disembodied on 15.3.19 and shortly after his return to England joined L&C again (exact details not to hand). The L&C went through various changes up to 1921 (details not to hand) but I will be check them tonight. I am trying to get the "bigger picture" of L&C RGA, so any information will be gratefully received, especially as Crosby Battery does not get a mention in your reply. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 There is curently a post card sent by a gunner from the Crosby Battery for sale on E bay,with your interest it might be worth a look Peter Brydon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdee Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Norman I missed this the first time round. 94 Siege battery were formed on the 16.12.15 the nucleus of which also came from Lancs & Cheshire RGA. Also 393 & 401 Siege were formed 3.3.17 from Crosby Bty, Liverpool Paul The only note on 525 Siege I can find is that they were formed partly from Royal Marine Light Infantry personnel ? Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Not sure how large ‘elements’ or ‘nucleus’ refers to but its fast becoming apparent the Lancs and Cheshire TF RGA dispersed gunners to a few siege batteries. Attached information in addition to the above mentioned 8 companies is from the library at the National archives. You will note the later obvious proximity of the numbering to 525. The Royal Artillery Historical Trust holds reference on the 525 as a Lancashire and Cheshire TF battery RGA. Have myself had very recent correspondence ofline with a forum member with a WW1 relative enlisted Liverpool in 525 L&C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wienand Drenth Posted 22 November , 2006 Share Posted 22 November , 2006 Hello Norman, Please find below a lineage of the Lancashire and Cheshire RGA. Hope it fills in some gaps. Cheers, Wienand Lancashire and Cheshire RGA (1st Lancashire Artillery Volunteers) Formed Feb. 1860 as 1st Admin Bde, Lancashire Art Vols with HQ at Liverpool, comprising 1st Corps in Liverpool, formed 16 Nov. 1859 as a sub-division, increased to bty 2 Dec. 1859, second bty formed 3 Dec. 1861, down to one bty and a sub-division Mar. 1860 and to two btys 16 Mar. 1861. Absd 7th and 8th Corps Mar. 1860, but resumed identity Jun. 1860. Absd 14th Corps Jul. 1861 as No. 3 Bty. Fourth bty formed 15 Sep. 1862, fifth and sixth bty formed 23 Mar. 1863, seventh and eighth formed later. 2nd Corps at Crosby, formed 3 Dec. 1859. Disb Sep. 1864. 6th Corps at Liverpool, formed 20 Dec. 1859. Absd 13th and 20th Corps Jun. 1861. Disb by Dec. 1863. 7th Corps at Liverpool, formed 21 Dec. 1859. Absd for period Mar. - Jun. 1860 in 1st Corps. Second bty formed 20 Feb. 1861, third formed 1 Jul. 1863, three more formed later. Disb Jul. 1869. 8th Corps at Liverpool, formed 9 Jan. 1860. Absd for period Mar. - Jun. 1860 in 1st Corps. Became indep end of 1860 (p.). 13th Corps at Everton, formed 28 Feb. 1860. Absd Jun. 1861 into 6th Corps. New 13th Corps by Feb. 1862 from bty of 6th Corps. Disb 20 Oct. 1863. 14th Corps at Liverpool. formed 28 Feb. 1860. Absd Jul. 1861 into 1st Corps as No. 3 Bty. 20th Corps at Liverpool. formed 8 Aug. 1860. Absd Jul. 1861 into 6th Corps. By Jul. 1869 bde ceased to exist and 1st Corps made indep with HQ at Low Hill, Liverpool and eight btys by 1880. Part of Lancashire Division, RA 1 Apr. 1882. Part of Southern Division, RA 1 Jul. 1889. Redes Dec. 1891 as 1st Lancashire VA; btys restyled as coys. Redes 1 Jan. 1902 as 1st Lancashire RGA (V). Tsfd 1 Apr. 1908 to the TF as Lancashire and Cheshire RGA as Defended Ports unit forming that unit's HQ at Low Hill, Liverpool, and Nos. 1 - 4 Coys at Low Hill, Liverpool. Nos. 5, 6 Coys at Seacombe (New Brighton first) formed from part 1st Cheshire RGA (V) (p.). Nos. 7, 8 Coys at Barrow-in-Furness newly formed. Emb 4 Aug. 1914. Oct. 1918 Nos. 1 - 4 Coys incorp in 24 FC. Reconst 7 Feb. 1920 as Lancashire and Cheshire RGA with HQ at Liverpool, one bty (later 177) from late Nos. 1 and 2 Coys at Liverpool and one bty (later 178) from late Nos. 3 and 4 Coys at Liverpool. Redes 1921 as Lancashire and Cheshire Coast Bde, RGA with 177 and 178 Btys. Redes 1 Jun. 1924 as Lancashire and Cheshire Heavy Bde, RA. Later 178 Bty to Seacombe. 1 Nov. 1938 "Bde" restyled as "Regt". Reorg 14 Jul. 1940 as 524th (Lancashire and Cheshire) Coast Regt, RA with A and B Btys. 404 and 405 Btys incorp 31 Dec. 1940. 208 Bty incorp 26 Jan. 1941. 25 Feb. 1941, 112 Bty formed and incorp, 208 Bty joined 533rd Coast Regt, RA. 1 Apr. 1941, A and B Btys numb as 111 and 109; regt in Mersey FC. 171 Bty incorp 16 Jul. 1941 from Home Forces. 189 Bty incorp 11 Aug. 1941. 404 Bty joined 541st Coast Regt, RA 12 Aug. 1941. 189 Bty joined 531st Coast Regt, RA 20 Oct. 1941. 109 Bty joined 517th Coast Regt, RA, 357 Bty incorp from that regt 23 Oct. 1941. 131 Bty incorp from 532nd Coast Regt, RA, 357 Bty incorp in that regt 2 May 1942. 112 Bty dis 10 oct. 1942, complete 27 Oct. 1942. RHQ in Mersey FC 7 Dec. 1942. RHQ conv 15 Jan. 1945 as RHQ 619th Regt, RA (Lancashire and Cheshire); details HQ 524th Coast Regt, RA retained. 131 Bty became indep 20 Feb. 1945; 111, 171 and 405 Btys under admin control of 131 Bty 20 May. 1945. All btys S/A 1 Jun. 1945, complete 22 Jun. 1945; HQ 524th Coast Regt, RA disb 1 Jun. 1945. 619th Regt, RA S/A 31 Oct. 1945. Reconst 1 Jan. 1947 as 420th Coast Regt, RA (Lancashire and Cheshire) with HQ at Mason Street, Liverpool. Btys subtitled 23 Nov. 1954 with Q (Lancashire) Bty at Liverpool and R (Cheshire) Bty at Wallasey. Regt conv 31 Oct. 1956 to RE: Liverpool elts re-roled as 253 Fld Sqn, 107th Corps Engineer Regt, RE (p.), Cheshire elts re-roled as 624 Fld Sqn, 113th Assault Engineer Regt, RE (p.). Amendment of 27 Sep. 1956 re-roled sqns as Crane Operating Sqn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 22 November , 2006 Share Posted 22 November , 2006 You may be interested in this extract from as local newspaper comncerning an "action" in which No. 7 Coy. Lancs. & Cheshire RGA were involved. Sad to say, eyewitness reports were a little optimistic; U22 survived the encounter. ATTACK ON WALNEY. Appearance of Supposed Enemy Submarine. FORT GUNS BROUGHT INTO ACTION. AIRSHIP SHED AS ENEMY’S TARGET. TWO SHOTS FIRED BUT FALL SHORT. INTRUDER SUNK EYE-WITNESS NARRATIVES. Some sensation was created in Barrow yesterday afternoon, when it became known that a German submarine had been sighted off Walney. It was reported that a German submarine was observed in the Irish Sea opposite the airship shed at Walney. The artillerymen of the fort opened fire and after discharging about a dozen rounds sunk the enemy’s craft. Later inquiries go to show that the hostile craft was plainly visible from the airship shed at Walney, and the incident caused a good deal of commotion among the employees there. Two men who had been working at the airship shed told one of our reporters that the fort broke into action about 3.0 The men employed around them in the shed ran out to see the cause, and out on the sea, they said, they could plainly see the submarine. They stated that two shots were fired from a gun which she had aboard, but both missiles fell short. They took it that the airship shed was the object of their fire. A dull report followed both shots. In all the fort guns fired about six or eight times, and in the course of the firing the submarine disappeared from sight. The general impression is that she had been sunk by the guns of the fort. The action of the batteries, they said, fairly shook the place, and the vibration could be distinctly heard. The affair occasioned quite an amount of excitement. It was approaching five o’clock when our reporter was in conversation with these informants, but they said that after the “sub” disappeared the fort guns ceased fire, and nothing more was seen of the mysterious craft. Workmen coming from Walney to commence work at Messrs. Vickers at 5 p.m., stated the shock of the firing could be felt in the houses on the island, which, of course, are a good distance away from the fort. THE GARRISON MEN. The fort at Walney was manned by No. 7 Company of the Lancashire and Cheshire R.G.A., a company which has distinguished itself for accurate firing, for which they have earned the merit badge of the “cross guns.” BATTERY COMMANDER “SAYS NOTHING.” When asked if he would confirm the report of the sinking of the vessel, the commander of the Walney Battery replied to a “Mail” reporter, “I would rather say nothing about it.” EYE-WITNESSES’ NARRATIVES, MAGNIFICENT FIRE FROM WALNEY FORT. An eye-witness, who was on the golf course in close proximity of the Walney Fort, states that his attention was first attracted by the report of a gun out at sea, and, looking in the direction from whence the noise came, he at once observed a submarine of a large type. At the same time he saw a splash in the water about a half mile from the shore, this being the shot from the submarine. This was about 25 minutes past two o’clock. The Walney Fort at once opened fire. Two shots went bang simultaneously, both being very close. In a twinkling, two further shots were discharged from the fort guns, and these went dead into the submarine. “It was really magnificent practice,” he remarked, with evident satisfaction. Asked if he had any doubt that it was a submarine, the gentleman interviewed was quite emphatic on the point that it was one. “There is no doubt about it,” he said, and he was equally convinced that the craft was sunk by the firing from the forts, and did not submerge of her own account. “She went down too rapidly for that,” he added. After the vessel disappeared the guns fired several further rounds right on the spot where she had been. About a dozen shots altogether were fired, and the exiting and somewhat sensational incident was all over in about five minutes. During the firing several Vickers’ officials were present. It is stated that the submarine had been under observation for some time. How she got so far away from her base is somewhat of a mystery, and her objective in coming into these waters can only be surmised. It is stated that she hoped to put a shot or two into the airship shed. It was high water at the time of the incident. Another theory is that the submarine was here for observation purposes, but on getting so close to the airship shed could not resist the temptation of having a shot. The military authorities are reticent, and prefer to say nothing. The fact remains that a submarine was fired at, although there may be some room for doubt as to whether the vessel really was sunk by gunfire or submerged herself. The mystery may soon be cleared. It will be possible to locate the spot, and at low water divers should have no difficulty in finding traces of the sunken craft – if sunk she really is. Needless to say, the men of the R.G.A. were overjoyed at the thought of having engaged in actual warfare, with such, presumably, notable success. “SO HARD-FACED.” THOUGHT IT WAS BRITISH AT FIRST. Another narrative from the lips of one who was on the spot, is to the effect that the presence of the submarine was discovered by one of the men at the Fort, who went up on to one of the grassy mounds to have a look round, it being such a clear and beautiful afternoon. Casting his eyes seaward, he was somewhat surprised to see a submarine some two or three miles out. He at once reported the matter, and in a twinkling the forts were manned ready for any emergency. At first, remarked our informant, it was though it might be a British submarine, as it was so hard–faced for the vessel to be proceeding to and fro on the surface in broad daylight, and so comparatively close in. The Coastguards signalled to the vessel, but received no reply. It soon became evident that the vessel belonged to the German Navy, and the guns were trained on her, and the men awaited orders to fire. The first shots, however, came from the submarine. There were two shots, and both fell some distance short. That, if nothing else, settled the nationality of this impudent intruder, and at once the guns of the fort hurled shell after shell at the craft, 11 in all being fired. The first two just missed but the third and fourth shots both hit the target, and down went the submarine. Other shots were then fired at the spot. Before the firing men were actually observed, through glasses, standing on the deck of the doomed ship. SURPRISE ON WALNEY. As soon as the first shot rang out from the guns of the fort there was some excitement among the residents of Walney Island. Heretofore, under ordinary circumstances when any firing practice was contemplated at the fort, the inhabitants of the Island were invariably informed in order that they might open windows etc. to obviate any damage in that direction, also to allay any possible alarm. Consequently the unheralded fire of guns brought the conclusion that something was amiss, but evidence of the true cause was early afloat. CONNING TOWER SHOWING. Another eye-witness corroborates the statement that the submarine fired twice. Her conning tower was visible and the craft was about a mile and a half from the shore. The tide was on the ebb, and judging by the above, the submarine must have been operating in fairly shallow water. Last night a search was made for any bodies or wreckage. -: Barrow News, Saturday, January 30, 1915; page 12. Best wishes. Andy. Photo of Fort Walney in 1940. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 23 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Thank you all for the information, it helps a lot. GF enlisted in 4 Company, Low Hill Liverpol in 1911. Interestingly, the papers I have from his service file show that he transfered to 106 (Lancashire Yeomanry) Brigade RFA in March 1921, how does that fit in with L & C RGA? Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 23 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Just found the following, which probably answers my own question! The Lancashire Hussars were originally formed in 1798 as independent troops, before becoming the Lancashire Yeomanry Cavalry in 1828 and then being disbanded in 1832. In 1848 the regiment was reformed as the Lancashire Hussars, becoming the Lancashire Hussars Imperial Yeomanry in 1901 and the Lancashire Hussars Yeomanry, in 1908. In 1920 it became the 2nd (Lancashire) Army Brigade, RFA and in 1921 the 106th (Lancashire Yeomanry) Brigade, RFA and in 1924 the 106th (Lancashire Yeomanry) Field Brigade, RA. Would that then mean he changed cap badges to the Lancashire Hussars or RFA or RA or L Yeomanry? For my collection I will have to find one of each!!! Again, thanks to all. Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 another siege battery formed at Crosby in Sept 1916 previously unmentioned. Tiec, His cap badge would have been RFA for the 106th (Lancashire Yeomanry) Brigade, Royal Field Artillery. Until 1938 when it was redesignated the 106th Lancashire Yeomanry Regiment RHA (TA) and again reorganised in 1941 the 106th light Anti aircraft Regiment RA, and considered to be placed in suspended animation after suffering heavy casualties and eventual capture in Greece and Crete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjec Posted 23 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Thank you Orokep, now I know the location of Crosby Point Battery, it is on the south side of Altcar rifle range. My parents used to take us to Formby (next to Hightown) when I was young. Amazingly, nobody mentioned my GF used "next door" for artillery practice. You live and learn. Thanks for the info on badges, I will still try to source one of each though! Regards, Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markacable Posted 19 January , 2007 Share Posted 19 January , 2007 Found this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...=ADME:B:SS:UK:1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gothic69 Posted 28 June , 2007 Share Posted 28 June , 2007 Hi, Does anybody have information about the Lancs & Cheshire RGA Territorial Units? Regards, Norman Hi, I am interested where these batteries were situated in liverpool, as there are no fixed positions any more apart from fort perch rock. Were they demolished after ww2 along with the other defences? also what type of artillery did they use? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ness Battery Posted 16 February , 2012 Share Posted 16 February , 2012 Hello. Just stumbled upon this while trying to find detail on the Lancs/Cheshire activities. I appreciate this is a WWII enquiry, but does anyone have any detail on their movements in 1938 or thereabouts? I believe elements of the L&C were sent up to man newly built coast batteries in Orkney in 1938 during or near the time of the 'Munich Crisis'. I note in Wienand Drenth's detailed history he mentions them joining 533 Coast Regt in 1941. 533 Coast Regt. was Ness Battery, near Stromness, Orkney, which in both wars was one of several batteries guarding the Western Approaches to Scapa Flow. www.nessbattery.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ness Battery Posted 23 March , 2012 Share Posted 23 March , 2012 Sorry, 533 Coast Regt. was the Southern Fire Command guarding the south entrance to Scapa Flow, Orkney. HQ/FC was Stanger Battery on Flotta. 534 Coast Regt was Ness Battery. Anyway, anyone got anything on the Lancs & Cheshire TA between the wars, 1938 in particular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Lee Temple Posted 8 October , 2023 Share Posted 8 October , 2023 Going through a 'job lot' of medals I bought because I wanted one group & the seller wouldn't split, I find that one pair is to an Acting Corporal from Newcastle-under-Lyne who joined the 525th (Lancs & Cheshire) Siege Battery RGA in France on 31.5.1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 25 December , 2023 Share Posted 25 December , 2023 Hello One of the men on my website was in this RGA unit- William (A) Turner Born ? Age: ? Reg: 363253 Rank: Gunner Royal School of Artillery Lancashire and Cheshire RGA (TF) He previously served as Pte 201177 in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment Another number 3522 is mentioned Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 25 December , 2023 Admin Share Posted 25 December , 2023 13 minutes ago, johnmelling1979 said: Another number 3522 is mentioned Which is his original 4th Battalion LNLR TF number allotted to him upon joining the LNLR and before the 1917 TF re-numbering was introduced when he was allotted the 6-digit LNLR number of 201171. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmelling1979 Posted 25 December , 2023 Share Posted 25 December , 2023 Thanks, Russ That helps add a little bit more information as there were 2 men named William Turner on the 194-1915 Roll of Honour I finally discovered the above person in 2021 and have had little information to go on Cheers and Merry Xmas John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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