Archaeological finds

[Simon R]

Dear All,

Did the German Army have any procedure for the curation of archaeological finds on the Western Front?

Grahame Clark (1964) ' On the German side the recovery of archaeological finds was organised on an official basis. When discoveries were made in the field they were automatically reported to General Headquarters who saw to it that museum authorities behind the lines were informed and given every facility for investigation.'

Is this true?

Is such an order included in the German Army Handbook or is it Army Orders or some such derivation? Can anyone give me references?

Simon.

[christine liava'a]

What did the Allies, in general, do?

I know that at least one mosaic floor from an old church in Egypt/Palestine was dug up by the chaplain, who was one of my Fijian men!, and is now in Australia!

402. Lieutenant -Colonel William Maitland Woods

Born London, England,

Residence Nasese

Nok Alice Mary Woods

Enlisted 9 August 1915

Chaplain to AIF forces

Served in Egypt & Palestine, excavated archeological site in Egypt-

mosaic floor now held at Australian War Memorial, Canberra, Australia

returned to Australia 18 February 1919 Order of British Empire 1919

Shalal church hill (The Lookout)

The top of this hill, the site of a Turkish machine gun post, was captured by Australian soldiers on April 17th, 1917, during the first world war. The post was dug within the remnants of a Byzantine church with a great mosaic floor with a pattern almost identical to that of the synagogue floor at Maon, 9 km to the west.

An inscription incorporated in the floor dates it to the year 561 C.E. The floor is now at the war memorial at Canberra, Australia.

Pet mosaics

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Hello Simon,

From all of the research and reading I have done on the German army I have never come across any reference to archeological finds or any official/unofficial position regarding such a find.

Do you have any further details on Grahame Clark? Was this from a book, an interview? Just curious.

Ralph

[Simon R]

Ralph,

Grahame Clark, former Disney Prof. of Archaeology at Cambridge, brilliant prehistorian, renowned archaeologist, superb intellect, first-class excavator of Starr Carr mesolithic settlement.

The reference is from Clark, G. 1964 Archaeology and Society Methuen, London.

[Simon R]

Christine,

That is a fine and very detailed example, thank you very much. That the mosaic became part of the Canberra memorial is particularly interesting.

Simon.

[ianw]

This is a fascinating topic and I recall previous threads that suggested that finds made during British trench digging had found their way to the British museum.

I have also heard a delicious rumour that a future T.V documentary will feature a recent excavation on the Western Front where the remains of a German soldier/archaeologist are found complete with notebook and a stone-age flint. I suspect that the modern day archaeologists on this excavation were shaken up a bit.

[Simon R]

re: german with flint.

That would be a unique discovery, can you reveal your source for this rumour or do I have to drag you before a public inquiry?

If it's true then it's a find of international importance.

It would perhaps also be remarkable to find a soldier with all his personal belongings still with him (?) and also an intact, readable notebook and not a mass of soggy papers which fall apart as soon as you look at them.

Simon.

[ianw]

No Simon, I think I will have to leave this tagged as a rumour at present for fear that someone may have been pulling my leg - although I must say I think this unlikely. Time will tell.

[AOK4]

I've got an article somewhere from the paper of the 4. Armee about excavations in Diksmuide IIRC. I'll have a look if I can find it and post something about it then.

Jan

[Fabiansson]

All these things are really interesting! I hope the found German archaeologist rumour is true. It sounds a bit too spectacular though...

Nick Saunders writes about British archaeology on the Western Front in an article, but I do not have it in front of me now, perhaps about Clark, I do not remember. See:

Nicholas J. Saunders, "Excavating memories: archaeology and the Great War, 1914-2001", Antiquity, Vol 76, No 291, March 2002, pp. 101-108.

Here, at hermitagemuseum.org, is an example of (South) Western Front archaeology.

/Nils

[Simon R]

Nils,

Grahame Clark stayed with the then pre-eminent Pennine prehistorian and ex. Captain of 7th Northumberland Fusiliers Francis Buckley in about the 1930's and used parts of Buckley's nationally important collection of prehistoric stone tools to help build up his Mesolithic flint typology. Buckley may have told Clark about German recording practices, but it may equally have been someone like O.G.S. Crawford or other such archaeological pioneer with a military background.

Buckley collected and published palaeolithic material from trenches found near Coigneux in 1918. He wasn't the only one to pick flints out of trench sections and the founder and first keeper of the museum I'm involved with Eric Cowling (signaller in D battery 245 Brigade RFA) also did the same, though his finds didn't survive.

I've mentioned all this before elsewhere and I will end up publishing it all properly - there is the small matter of recording and drawing nearly 5 thousand flint tools in the Cowling collection first though.

See you in 30 years time.

[AOK4]

I found the article I mentioned, it is a 4 page addendum for the 4th Army newspaper of 24 September 1916.

It tells about the Church of Diksmuide and the excavation of the church choir. It appears that 10 men were busy for several months to recover the parts. In the article are also several pictures of the pieces that were found.

Jan

[Fabiansson]

It is not unlikely that several belligerent countries had some kind of archaeological work going on during the war, both ordered on some level in the system and volunteer, also at some level in the hierarchy. We must consider that all officers of that time were educated in the history of Rome and Greece - much more than we are today - and that the digging along the Western Front, Italy, Turkey, Palestine etc must have uncovered thousands and thousands of archaeological findings, from the oldest stone age to recent historical periods - look here for Roman sites at the Somme battlefield for example! Problematic is though, to find the records of this work - perhaps threads to find the original records it is to be found in regimental histories, personal biographies or in news papers, as Jan managed to find (perhaps it would be possible to find the records of these excavations in the German military archives Jan?), or in old archaeological literature, as Clark's classic (first edition 1939)...

/Nils

[Simon R]

My interest in this is not so much in discovering exactly who found what where, but in understanding what this kind of odd collecting activity in the middle of a battlefield meant to those involved in it.

The paradox seems to be that although some old comrades may have been using this activity to 'escape' from the horrors (including boredom) of the trenches (like some might have read, written poetry, got utterly blotto, made trench art or even composed music), they would have undoubtedly come across some pretty ghastly human remains whilst doing it. In other words, to escape the war, they would have to (perhaps) look even more closely at it.

My signaller Eric Cowling went on to build a very important flint collection in Wharfedale - what effect did his experiences on the Western Front have on his perceptions of landscape, prehistory and the past in general? He wasn't too hot on grid references and find spots and I wonder if he was just pleased that his sites weren't being shelled to pieces.

Having been gassed quite comprehensively, Eric was told by his doctor to seek fresh air wherever he could - he did this by cycling round the Yorkshire Wolds with his Dad picking up stone tools and looking at prehistoric sites. Now that's a very particular thing to do, what's it all about I ask myself.

[Fabiansson]

Ian have heard corrrect, at least in part: A BBC documentary ("Meet the Ancestors") in February will feature a recent excavation on the Western Front where the remains of a German soldier are found with a bronze age flint scraper in his bread bag. Pictures and reports etc. will not be published until then, but a talk about the excavation will be held at TAG 03, Lampeter, UK, Thursday 18th December 2003 ("Archaeologists at the Front: theoretical & methodological implications of battlefield archaeology", by Martin Brown & John Carman).

October 2003 the Trench Team excavated a smaller length of German front line at the corner of Heidenkopf/Quadrilateral at Serre (in relation to the Wilfred Owen outpost incident). During limited excavation they uncovered three bodies, one British from a Lancs. reg. and two German from a Württemburg reg (i.e. one with a flint scraper). For the moment the bodies are going through forensic studies at U.C.L. (Germans) - as Volksbund lacks funding - and M.O.D. (British)

As a result the Trench Team estimates that it is possible to excavate a WW1 isolated casualty in about nine hours with 2+1 trained personnel, recovering all ID data (of which there was apparently much more than expected from reports of other similar excavations...). Judging from this and their other excavations they argue that you can estimate one body every ten metres on this kind of front line excavation work.

The Heidenkopf/Quadrilateral area was known in the war to be "completely pulverised", with mud up to three metres deep according to eyewitness. However, judging from the excavation results that is a surface perception. In fact archaeology was very intact with duckboards (several layers), knife rests, in situ sniper shields etc.

See more here!

/Nils

[Simon R]

Nils,

If you're going to TAG let me know how the Brown/Carman lecture goes.

Is John Carman still at Cambridge?

[Bert Heyvaert]

I am going to TAG, as I can make it count as a day of fieldwork on my course ( and because I don't want to miss the lecture a well, of course) Just wondered if I might find some other Pals there,

cheers,

Bert.

[Guest J.Woodward]

Did anyone see Time Flyers yesterday? The one concerning the Sheffield Pals? What did the Baker Pals think? I ask because I am doing an M.A in Historical Archaeology at Bristol and Mark Horton, the presenter is my Head of Department, interesting to see what Great War experts views on the program were. I will reserve my own opinion for the moment!!

p.s anyone at CHAT a couple of weekends ago?

[ianw]

There is a separate thread on this TV Programme elsewhere.

Ooops , some rather less than complimentary comments about Mark Horton and also some errors in location in the programme. Nice helicopter though.

[ianw]

Nils,

Glad that some details of the "Meet the Ancestors" programme have surfaced. Certainly interested in details of this dig at Serre and the results obtained with a full blown professional dig.

I would like to go to the Lampeter conference for that presentation but it is a rather long way from London. No doubt there will be a paper available.

[Fabiansson]

For Brown's & Carman's paper, and other interesting papers (abstracts of), which are to be held at the session "Archaeologists at the Front: Battlefield Archaeology", download the pdf file, and print pp. 9, 38-39.

Unfortunately, I cannot come. Glad to hear that some of your will.

/Nils

[ianw]

I would certainly like to attend the Lampeter conference on the Battlefield Archaeology afternoon on the Thursday. However it's a long trip. If anyone else from SE England wants to go please contact me off Forum. It might be a go-er on a shared cost basis.