War Memorial - Chippenham, Wilts

[JohnBelcher]

The war memorial in Chippenham has been repaired and a number of missing names have been added. This followed an appeal in the local papers for names of men who should be on the memorial but for whatever reason, weren't. This was done so that as full a list as possible was commemorated.

As I have been researching the names on the memorial, I supplied of list of names from both wars to be added. This was far more than anyone was expecting and some sharp intakes of breath were taken. Sadly another rule was then introduced to say that the next of kin had to request the names to be added.

As a consequence, only 1 name was added to the list of First war casualties.

The refurbished memorial was rededicated on Sat 11th November in a short and very moving ceremony following the laying of a wreath by the widow and young children of Cpl David Williams whose name has been added to the memorial after he was killed in the Hercules crash in Iraq last year. The only thing that spolit the occasion for me was that the two minutes silence was drowned out the noise of buses and cars driving past.

The extra name added - Pte JW Kingsland

Panel for the Second war and other conflicts

The First war missing names.......

26606 Gnr Roland Baish 122 Heavy Bty, RGA

294023 Pte II George Bothwell RAF

C/1591 Rfn Walter Cook Brittain 16 KRRC

18098 Pte Herbert Burry 1 Wilts

14509 Pte Tom Canter 8 Berks

22220 Pte Thomas Cole 1 Wilts

10418 Pte Wallace Cousens 1 Wilts

203261 Pte Frederick Crocker 6 Wilts

20845 Pte Arthur Gameson 2 SWB

30744 Pte Frank Gregory 1 Devons

95722 Pte Harold Hicks "B" Btn, Tank Corps

10376 Pte Wilfred Hunt 5 Wilts

238354 Gnr Charles Large 35 Bty, 31 Bde, RFA

26200 Pte Ernest Maslen 5 Wilts

18364 L/Cpl Arthur Ricketts 2 Wilts

315468 Rfn George Spooner 5 London (London Rifle Bde)

G/29390 Pte Arthur Tavinor 7 Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regt)

99355 Gnr Henry Tompkin 266 Siege Bty, RGA

8644 Pte Edgar Vines 2 Wilts

147770 Pte Frank Webb 5 Canadian Inf

6922 L/Cpl James Webb 1 Wilts

18259 Pte Richard Wilkins 2 Wilts

95863 Gnr Lancelot Witts 1(North Midland) Heavy Bty, RGA

And I am sure there are others

All those listed above either were born in, resided in or had next of kin who lived in Chippenham. One thing I did notice with the names was that a number of their widows had remarried by the time the memorial was originally unvield in 1921.

[tombowcock]

The extra name added - Pte JW Kingsland

The First war missing names.......

26606 Gnr Roland Baish 122 Heavy Bty, RGA

294023 Pte II George Bothwell RAF

C/1591 Rfn Walter Cook Brittain 16 KRRC

18098 Pte Herbert Burry 1 Wilts

14509 Pte Tom Canter 8 Berks

22220 Pte Thomas Cole 1 Wilts

10418 Pte Wallace Cousens 1 Wilts

203261 Pte Frederick Crocker 6 Wilts

20845 Pte Arthur Gameson 2 SWB

30744 Pte Frank Gregory 1 Devons

95722 Pte Harold Hicks "B" Btn, Tank Corps

10376 Pte Wilfred Hunt 5 Wilts

238354 Gnr Charles Large 35 Bty, 31 Bde, RFA

26200 Pte Ernest Maslen 5 Wilts

18364 L/Cpl Arthur Ricketts 2 Wilts

315468 Rfn George Spooner 5 London (London Rifle Bde)

G/29390 Pte Arthur Tavinor 7 Queen's Own (Royal West Kent Regt)

99355 Gnr Henry Tompkin 266 Siege Bty, RGA

8644 Pte Edgar Vines 2 Wilts

147770 Pte Frank Webb 5 Canadian Inf

6922 L/Cpl James Webb 1 Wilts

18259 Pte Richard Wilkins 2 Wilts

95863 Gnr Lancelot Witts 1(North Midland) Heavy Bty, RGA

Hi John,

Thanks for posting the photo's and the information on teh Chippenham Memorial. I was due to be there on Saturday, as I was instrumental in getting John Kingsland added to the memorial. He was added primarily because there was existing evidence of commemoration in Chippenham (URC Memorial Tablet).

I also took up the case of two men who I thought had been omitted. One of whom was certainly Lancelot Witts. I also was suprised by the attitude of the RBL in requiring that only next of kin should be able to request that a soldier is commemorated. In one of the cases I was looking at it appeared that the reason he was not included was that all of his next of kin had also died. I must admit it is disturbing that men who had not been included for whatever reason should be denied their just commemoration.

however, I am sure that is a little harsh on the RBL, and I am sure that if pushed they would agree. Perhaps I was over optimistic in expecting a receptive and like minded approach to ourselves from the RBL ?

Is it worth a concerted effort to get them remembered (although I am sure they will not be best pleased having just spent £20k on bringing it up to its present state.

All the best

James

[chaz]

trouble is, where the memorial is sited its bound to be affected by the traffic fumes. how long before a bus or artic delivering to Somerfields hits it?

[JohnBelcher]

It has survived since 1921 so far....and some of that time it didn't have the pavement round it as it does now. I would be more worried about someone driving in the small carpark beside the memorial.

Incidently the cost of the memorial in 1921 was around £795 - in todays money that is around £24,000 - just about the same amount as has been spent doing it up.

When the names were originally put on the memorial, there seems to have been no set criteria for who would go on each memorial. A small committee was set up to decide on the names to go on the memorial and it seems it was just down to them to decide who went on.

Should it be people who were

Born in the town? (What if they had moved away shortly after being born?)

Lived in the town? (Due to work but how long did they have to live here to qualify?)

e.g. Kingsland - parents lived in Jersey and he was an employee of Llyods bank and presumably worshipped in the URC. But how long had he been in Chippenham bearing in mind that he was only 19 when he was killed. (There are others like this but I don't have access to my material as at work.)

Next of kin lived in the town? (What if they had never actually lived in the town themselves?)

e.g. Richard Neate - killed at Zeebrugge. He was born and brought up in Castle Combe, left to go to Birmingahm for work and then joined the RM. His mother moved to Chippenham when she remarried. I doubt very much that he ever actually lived in Chippenham but is on the memorial.

A copy of the booklet that I gave to the RBL with the details of the men who I believed were missing off the memorial can be downloaded here (1.8Mb)

[Michelle Young]

Thank you for these photos, the memorial was in need of restoration. The stone it is made of looks vulnerable to pollution, being a sandstone like material. Is the memorial tacked onto the back of an existing fountain or was it designed like that? I haveen't been into the heritage centre for a while so can't remember the photos in there.

My inlaws live in a cottage that belonged to a chap called Large, who was a POW for most of the war, having gone in the bag at 1st Ypres. I wonder if he was any relation to the Large not on the memorial? That Large lived in St Mary Street, they live a short distance away close to the Police station.

My nephew found an Old Contemptibles badge some years ago in their garden..........

Richard Neate is also on the Castle Combe war memorial

Sorry to ramble.

Michelle

[HERITAGE PLUS]

John

Impressive work. Was/has any thought been given to including the names of the three VAD girls who died (you have my notes) whilst serving at the Neeld Hall Red Cross Hospital ?

Dave

[JohnBelcher]

Is the memorial tacked onto the back of an existing fountain or was it designed like that? I

Hello Michelle

Yes you are right, the memorial is built onto the town fountain, which I think over a well.

It was agreed that to invite designs for using the fountain in the Market Place as a War Memorial on the site of the fountain, providing for a drinking trough for cattle and horses. The War Memorial was not to exceed £500.

Town council meeting as reported in the Wilts Times 22 Nov 1919

the meorial is made from a type of stone called Hornstone from near Banbury. I have been told that it contained metal rods as support but these were corroding and in deparate need of repair and unless something was done then the memorial could collapse (that was about 10 years ago!!). During the repairs, a special coating has been put on the stone to make it more duarble.

Richard Neate is buried in Castle Combe in a grave that could do with attention.

[JohnBelcher]

Dave

Thanks for your reply.

I must admit that I didn't pass on the names of the 3 VAD - my mistake as I was concentrating on the soldiers who were killed. A quick look at your notes before I head off to work and I only found 1 name, I will check more throughly in the next couple of days.

Ellen Margery Rooke VAD 16 Oct 1918

In my defence, I did say "And I am sure there are others"

[Michelle Young]

I'll be walking past the memorial friday night on my way out to hubbys works dinner, so I'll stop and say hello.

[spoons]

A little off-topic but if Harold Wheeler appears on the WW2 placque, any chance of a better res photo please?

[Moonraker]

John

Impressive work. Was/has any thought been given to including the names of the three VAD girls who died (you have my notes) whilst serving at the Neeld Hall Red Cross Hospital ?

Dave

Dave

Any chance of you sharing your notes re these girls with me, please, by PM if necessary; at very least I would like to know the causes of their deaths (perhaps influenza in 1918-19 at a guess)?

Thanks

Moonraker

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Moonraker

I passed all my detailed notes on Chippenham War Memorials and those who lost their lives in both wars to John (Belcher) when I left Chippenham a number of years ago after I found out that unknown to each other we were both researching the memorials.

However from the spreadsheet I retained on the VADs I can provide the following 4 names

Doris Mary Frederika Rooke d. 14.10.18 - Pneumonia afterInfluenza

Ellen Margery Rooke d. 16.10.18 - Pneumnia after Influenza (Sister of Doris)

Muriel Annie Belcher d. 30.9.14 - complications after appendectomy operation

Mrs.A.Stevens d. 30.11.18 - illness

Captain Wallace Mortimer Rooke (Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry) brother of Doris and Ellen also died of influenza whilst on home leave in 1918. He has a brass memorial plaque in St.Andrews Church, Chippenham. All three are buried in the family plot in London Road Cemetery, Chippenham.

Thefamily lived at The Ivy, Bath Road, Chippenham.

Muriel Belcher's sisters Evelyn, Annie and Dora were also VADs, Evelyn being Quartermaster of Wilts 6 to which all mentioned in this post belonged. Evelyn was awarded the MBE for her service.

Evelyn and Dora were both awarded The Red Cross Card for Honourable Service.

Hope this helps.

Dave

[JohnBelcher]

Moonraker / Heritage

I have gone throught the notes

Ellen Margery Rooke

Died 16/10/1918 aged 20. VAD Wilts 6, Red Cross Hospital Neeld Hall, Chippenham. Daughter of Mortimer Rooke, The Ivy. Familiarly known as “Nellie”. Buried beside her sister Dora on 19/10/1918.

Doris Fredericka Rooke

Died 14/10/1918 aged 17

Other details as Dave has already given

Dave – sorry but I cannot find the other 2 in your note books.

Btw Muriel Annie Belcher is no relation to me

[JohnBelcher]

A little off-topic but if Harold Wheeler appears on the WW2 placque, any chance of a better res photo please?

Sure - can you let me know your e-mail and I will send you a copy. My original image is 2.5Mb

[Moonraker]

Doris Mary Frederika Rooke d. 14.10.18 - Pneumonia afterInfluenza

Ellen Margery Rooke d. 16.10.18 - Pneumnia after Influenza (Sister of Doris)

Captain Wallace Mortimer Rooke (Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry) brother of Doris and Ellen also died of influenza whilst on home leave in 1918.

Dave

Dave & John: Thanks. I have only a few snippets on individual VADs and nursing staff, and your info adds to them nicely.

How sad for one family to lose three members in the same short period.

Moonraker

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Moonraker

I have only a few snippets on individual VADs and nursing staff

Are you collecting info on VADs who died only or is your sphere of interest wider?

I do have a list of the VADs who served in Wilts 6 VAD (Women) at Chippenham War Hospital and Wilts 13 (Men) VAD who operated as stretcher bearers and drivers collecting patients from the GWR station.

Happy to pass a copy to you if you wish.

This is a photograph of the Rooke family home 'The Ivy' which is still there although the family sold it some years ago.

Dave

[Moonraker]

Moonraker

Are you collecting info on VADs who died only or is your sphere of interest wider?

I do have a list of the VADs who served in Wilts 6 VAD (Women) at Chippenham War Hospital and Wilts 13 (Men) VAD who operated as stretcher bearers and drivers collecting patients from the GWR station.

Happy to pass a copy to you if you wish.

This is a photograph of the Rooke family home 'The Ivy' which is still there although the family sold it some years ago.

Dave

Dave: I'm interested in any personalities within Wiltshire, whether or not they survived the war. A copy of the list would be welcome. Would it be an email attachment or hard copy via snailmail? Please PM me. (I may not be online again until tomorrow.)

Moonraker

[JohnBelcher]

Last week we reported on the death of Capt Maurice Mortimer Rooke which took place at the residence of his parents, The Ivy, on the 8th inst. Capt Rooke who was 28, at the out break of war joined the Royal Wilts Yeomanry and was attached to the Wiltshire Regiment. He was promoted Captain in June 1916 and during the past 2 years had taken part in all the engagements that his regiment worthily upheld it’s tradition and was mentioned in despatches. He contracted Spanish influenza whilst in France but got better. He obtained leave of absence and came home, where he arrived on September 30th. He was unfortunately seized with the old complaint and developed pneumonia, this proved fatal. The funeral took place on Saturday (12th October). Military honours were accorded and a firing party under the command of Sgt Maj May fired three volleys over the grave. The band of the Wiltshire Regiment led the cortege. The coffin of polished oak was draped with the Union Jack on which the sword, belt, cap and spurs of the deceased were placed.

Wilts Times 19 October 1918

Mr and Mrs Mortimer Rooke of The Ivy, who recently lost their son Capt Maurice Rooke have suffered two further bereavements. On October 14th, their youngest daughter Doris Mary Fredericka, aged 17 died through pneumonia following Spanish influenza and two days later E Marjory aged 20 died from meningitis following Spanish influenza.

Wilts Times 19 October 1918

Memorial plaque in St Andrew’s church: -

From the transport section, 2nd Battalion Wiltshire Regiment.

In Memory of their beloved officer

Capt. Wallace Mortimer Rooke

Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry

Died 8th October 1918

Aged 28

One of the best

Wallace Mortimer Rooke Born 20 July 1890, died 8 October 1918.

Sisters Ellen Marjory Born 16 September 1898 Died 16 October 1918

Doris Mary Frederika Born 1 February 1901Died 14 October 1918

Parents Mortimer Rooke Died 16 May 1942

Frederika Charlotte Louisa Died 27 March 1954

Details taken from the headstones in Chippenham cemetery - I have pictures but they are film. If anyone wants copies then I will retake as digital and post here.

[Kookaburra]

Sadly another rule was then introduced to say that the next of kin had to request the names to be added.

What a shame!! I just hate it when the goal posts get moved. Several of the men who were killed in WW1 that our group is researching were the last of their line. It was probably the same with some on your list. What next of kin????

Thanks for posting the photos.

Cheers, Diane

[spoons]

Sure - can you let me know your e-mail and I will send you a copy. My original image is 2.5Mb

Thanks very much John, received the photo by email. Harold Raymond Wheeler was the uncle of a colleague at work. He was on a training mission (WW2) flying a Fairy Battle from Porthcawl when it suffered engine failure and came down in water, all crew were drowned.

She will be very pleased to see this photo.

[JohnBelcher]

Brief notes I made from the local paper

Parents - Mr and Mrs FG Wheeler of 1 Greenway Park.

Wife - lived at South Lodge, Frenchay, Bristol

Funeral 3 August 1940.

Died 27 July 1940

Crashed into the sea during a training flight, his body was not recovered until the following Wednesday.

[spoons]

Brief notes I made from the local paper

Parents - Mr and Mrs FG Wheeler of 1 Greenway Park.

Wife - lived at South Lodge, Frenchay, Bristol

Funeral 3 August 1940.

Died 27 July 1940

Crashed into the sea during a training flight, his body was not recovered until the following Wednesday.

Thanks very much for the info John - have passed it on and am sure my colleague will be very grateful

[kinnethmont]

John

Who owns the memorial and why are RBL involved in deciding the addition of names?

[Moonraker]

The war memorial in Chippenham has been repaired ...

I've just been checking my notes and found this reference:

Lance Corporal J S V Fox, also of the 1st Wiltshire, was shot on April 20, 1915 after deserting when attached to the Third Division's Cyclists’ Company. Fox came from Chippenham, and was a Regular, and I understand his name appeared on the town's war memorial in its original form and on the parish church roll of honour, suggesting perhaps that the facts of his death were not generally known, given the tendency to omit the names of soldiers who had died in circumstances such as his.

Moonraker

[JohnBelcher]

I am not so sure about his parents not knowing the real reason for his death however, The Wltshire Times reported on the 23rd April 1915

REPORT OF SON KILLED LEADS FATHER TO ENLIST.

On Thursday morning (22nd April) Mr and Mrs C Fox of the Causeway received information that their son, Victor, of the Wiltshire regiment had been killed at the front. The news has not been confirmed by the War Office but was, the parents state, conveyed to them by a comrade, and the father in order, as he puts it, to avenge his sons death went at once joined Kitchener’s Army.

L/Cpl Fox had proved himself a plucky lad. He was formerly with his father in the bill posting business and enlisted in the Gloucester Regiment and also the Somerset’s, but was bought out. When war broke out he again joined the Army and has been in France for some time.

Mr and Mrs Fox have another son who is a prisoner in Germany and this morning’s post brought a letters from him in which he appeals to his parents to send food, in particular white bread.

I did ask a question regarding any other memorials that had men who were executed on them or is Chippenham unique but the topic before but the topic was deleted as apparently it is too contentious.