original Turk mauser Model 1893

[micmacman]

im told this is more than likely a WWI vet bring back which is why it escaped rearsenal,most of the Turk 93 Mausers were scrubbed of their original markings and serial numbered with modern numerals,the original crests were scrubbed and replaced with ANKARA and the arsenal that did the work(most ASFA) and accompanied with a date of their rearsenal (1930's)

also they were rechambered to the more common 8x57 round from their original round of 7.65x53,along with rechambering to 8mm the receiver had to be notched in order to accept the londer spitzer round,,,,also the receiver wall was cut to allow easier access with the thumb for loading with stripper clips

further more the straight stocks were replaced with the more "modern" pistol grip,and newer sights were added,,,,the most significant alteration they received was the removal of the mag cutoff,they were ground off as they were machined onto the receiver as one piece

this rifle has received none of the mentioned alterations,and retains all of its original markings including the original crest,The Crest is a Tugrah of the Sultans of Turkey from the house of Osman

these rifles are more scarce,and harder to find then Hens teeth still in this configuration,the condition is depressed,but is still a cosiderable find,and i got it for a song

[micmacman]

[micmacman]

[micmacman]

[micmacman]

[micmacman]

here are some pics of a Turk model 1893 that went through the arsenal changes,note the pistol grip stock,lack of the mag cutoff,the receiver notchs for the 8mm upgrade,and the differant receiver crest,,,,,also note the presence of modern numerals and serial numbers,also that the farsi writing has been scrubbed from the siderail

i appologize for some of the pics being fuzzy

[micmacman]

[jacobtowne]

Well, it'll take a real expert to sort this one out, and that does not include me.

From reading in Ball's Military Mauser Rifles of the World, I can offer these observations.

The markings on the left side rail may look Farsi, but they are exactly what Ball shows on a M1893 Turkish Mauser as "manufacturer's markings in Turkish."

The graduations on the rear sight leaf are as in Ball's photo of a M1893 rifle, which he terms "Turkish numerals."

The pictorial stamp on the top of the forward receiver ring is a Turkish "Toughra."

The other receiver ring stamp (where is that, by the way?) says "Ankara," and that is shown as belonging to a M38 short rifle. In the late 1930s, the Turks took many of their varieties of rifles into arsenal and converted them to the shorter M38.

JT

[lassuy]

What a fantastic find--unaltered '93s are extremely scarce. If you've not already done so, please post those pics over at www.gunboards.com --look for the Mauser forum. There are a couple of gentlemen over there that will tell you exactly what the markings are and what they represent--and why they are in a version of Farsi.

I'm always on the lookout for a treasure like that, but haven't been so lucky this far. I'll have to make do with my altered '93, it still has the original stock, but the caliber is changed. The cutoff was deactivated on mine by simply grinding off the small handle or button, which at least left it somewhat intact.

Now, of course, you'll have to be searching for a cleaning rod, sling, bayonet and scabbard, etc., etc. It never ends, but that's the fun of it!

[bob lembke]

Very nice!

But why would an Ottoman rifle have Farsi markings? Turkish used the Arabic alphabet till Ataturk's reforms of the 1920's, I believe.

Bob Lembke

[micmacman]

ive been told two differant versions,to be honost i dont know which to beleive

[bob lembke]

ive been told two differant versions,to be honost i dont know which to beleive

I just wrote a long response, and as I was sending it my Internet connection dropped for a second, trashing the post seconds before it posted. I will brutally summarise it.

Farsi is the principal language of Iran. It has a cursive script, like the Arabic alphabet, but they appear quite differently if you look at it, to my mind. Although the educated writer of Turkish of the Ottoman period often attempted to insert a lot of Persian (and Arabic) prose and poetry into his Turkish text, to show off his erudition, it certainly would have actually been written in the Arabic alphabet, the alphabet of Ottoman Turkish. (Ataturk switched Turkish to a modified European-style alphabet after the war.)

I could not imagine why a Turkish arsenal, or a contractor working for the Ottoman government, would strike official markings into Turkish weapons in the alphabet of another, potentially enemy country.

The Arabic alphabet is considerably "worse" than it appears to be. As Turkish is still possibly the most difficult, in total, major language in the world, even with a greatly simplified alphabet, Ataturk did the Turks a big favor switching alphabets, IMHO.

Bob Lembke