Arabic script near Turkish trenches?

[domsim]

Hi Folks

As some of you might know I have an interest in the Ottoman army in southern Jordan. I have been using Google earth to look at trench systems around the town of Ma’an in southern Jordan. This was a major garrison, machine shop and airfield for the Ottoman army. Google shows loads of trenches some of which appear to have Arabic writing associated with them (see attached photos).The area is limestone upland desert.

Am I going mad or is this really writing and if so is it modern Arab Arabic (Fred was ‘ere or Hello Mum) or earlier Ottoman Arabic script? The area was the scene of conflict after WW1 with Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia and had an RAF forward base for many years.Would it be for ground recognition or is it the middle east equivalent of the Fovant badges? Any ideas/translations gratefully accepted.

Cheers

Dominic

another

last

[domsim]

last

[wroclaw]

These type of scripts are common in middle east and mostly dating to our time. I presume who ever makes them, would bother to do it on high grounds where the trenches would naturally be also. Seems like there are many Land rover colises there (typical to southern Jordan) and I believe those scripts wouldn’t have survived since the Great War under those. Cant read that, but usually desert scripts contain simple phrases mentioning the all mighty.

The Turkish trench line south west of Beersheva have no such scripts around them.

Cant help anymore.

[bob lembke]

Dominic;

Yes, it is Arabic lettering. Until Attaturk's linguistic reforms post-WW I Turkish was written in Arabic script.

However, for lots of good reasons, that is nothing that has survived from the WW I era, but something either written in black ink on the equivilant of a film negative or negative plate, or something written in white ink on the positive, or some more current technology, perhaps a digital medium, with Arabic writing on it, perhaps indicating features of interest. I do not know the technology of "Google earth".

It is hardly less believable that the script is on the ground but of current origin. Do note that the tonality of the script is quite different than anything natural on the images.

Wroclaw suggests an ingenious possibility, but I cannot imagine it; to put religous phrases out of the Qur'aan, which are often things like the "Hundred Names of Allah", down on the desert in something like the lime used to mark the sidelines of a football field would necessarily lead to lots of wildlife urinating or pooping on what Muslims feel are the literal words of God. (Have you been to a mosque during prayer and seen the Qur'aan handled? They are not left in places where wildlife can relieve themselves on the Word of God.) In an Islamic society doing such a thing could be a bad career choice.

Additionally, the lettering must be Arabic in Arabic lettering, not Turkish in Arabic lettering, which almost no one today could either write or read.

See if someone translates it for you; if no one steps forward I have a tenant who knows at least four dialects of Arabic.

Bob Lembke

[Guest Bill Woerlee]

Dominic

G'day mate

It would have been great if you had put the exact lat and long on the pix - I had a look for them and couldn't find them.

However, looking at the landscape, they look like very modern manifestations. Bob has corectly pointed out that there is a difference between the landscape and the colouration of the lettering. There is no mystery to this - it is related to patina. Judging by the gouges around Ma'an, the white colour is clearly from the rock substratum. Unless regularly renewed, the movement of dust will discolour them quickly reducing them to same colour as the rest of the landscape.

These have obviously been put there to be read from the air so you can guarantee that it is of current Arabic writing - could be saying - "Eat at Abdul's" or "Hamid's car rentals has a good deal 4 u" and the like. Or perhaps verses from the Koran.

cheers

Bill

[wroclaw]

I've asked a friend to read those scripts. The first and second are hard to read and understand and might represent some names (“el Nashla’” and “el Djem”). The last says "for the ****, for the fatherland, for the king".

Here in Israel sometimes small units would write their basic unit names or some slogans +date in high places in the desert they camp in. The same could be done by youth groups. I suspect these ones in Jordan were made by an army unit. The white color in made by pouring lime on the fieldstones.

[wroclaw]

Wroclaw suggests an ingenious possibility, but I cannot imagine it; to put religous phrases out of the Qur'aan, which are often things like the "Hundred Names of Allah", down on the desert in something like the lime used to mark the sidelines of a football field would necessarily lead to lots of wildlife urinating or pooping on what Muslims feel are the literal words of God. (Have you been to a mosque during prayer and seen the Qur'aan handled? They are not left in places where wildlife can relieve themselves on the Word of God.) In an Islamic society doing such a thing could be a bad career choice.

Additionally, the lettering must be Arabic in Arabic lettering, not Turkish in Arabic lettering, which almost no one today could either write or read.

See if someone translates it for you; if no one steps forward I have a tenant who knows at least four dialects of Arabic.

Bob Lembke

Bob

Writing the name of the lord by shepherds and nomads is not considered a disrespectful act and anyway, the Bedouins have always presented a different version of islam (this had changed in the 2nd half of the 20th century when Bedouins settled but still they adopt a more “flexible” face of religion). Much to the disappointment of archeologists nearly all non-modern desert rock scripts are found to be not more then short verses written by nomads and by passers, one of many version of “alla protect me”, “alla give me a blessing in journey” etc. Disappointment off course since while finding a script is a good reason for a “party”, the above scrip’s give no historical hint.

As for handling the written word: Judaism is even more radical with that – giving ceremonial burial for old and unused writings, including all religion related papers. Still graffiti (not the vandalism related but ones done by casual people when on the road or isolated places) is common even in holy places. With Islam this custom is even more common.

[domsim]

Hi folks

Thanks for all the replies- yes I think they are probably modern- I have seen plenty of guys driving around the middle of nowhere out there in jcb’s and bulldozers. I was secretly hoping they were Turkish!

Still have to say what an amazing tool google earth is for finding archaeology- especially in desert areas-wish we had 10 years ago!

Bill sorry I didn’t put the lat and long. Here they are, 2 are quite close together.

Cheers

Dominic

30 deg. 09’ 30.71”N 35 deg. 46’ 12.8”E

30 deg. 10’ 0.98”N 35 deg. 46’ 2.73”E

30 deg. 9’ 40.06” N 35 deg. 46’ 24.54” E

[Paul Hederer]

Dominic;

Yes, it is Arabic lettering. Until Attaturk's linguistic reforms post-WW I Turkish was written in Arabic script.

However, for lots of good reasons, that is nothing that has survived from the WW I era, but something either written in black ink on the equivilant of a film negative or negative plate, or something written in white ink on the positive, or some more current technology, perhaps a digital medium, with Arabic writing on it, perhaps indicating features of interest. I do not know the technology of "Google earth".

It is hardly less believable that the script is on the ground but of current origin. Do note that the tonality of the script is quite different than anything natural on the images.

Wroclaw suggests an ingenious possibility, but I cannot imagine it; to put religous phrases out of the Qur'aan, which are often things like the "Hundred Names of Allah", down on the desert in something like the lime used to mark the sidelines of a football field would necessarily lead to lots of wildlife urinating or pooping on what Muslims feel are the literal words of God. (Have you been to a mosque during prayer and seen the Qur'aan handled? They are not left in places where wildlife can relieve themselves on the Word of God.) In an Islamic society doing such a thing could be a bad career choice.

Additionally, the lettering must be Arabic in Arabic lettering, not Turkish in Arabic lettering, which almost no one today could either write or read.

See if someone translates it for you; if no one steps forward I have a tenant who knows at least four dialects of Arabic.

Bob Lembke

Bob,

Just FYI it's "99 names of allah," not 100.

Paul

[welshdoc]

how do you get these photos is it a subscription to google earth as all i get is out of focus blurs.

[egbert]

Ok guys, here we go:

my son works in Dubai and had plenty of Arabs to ask today. This is the Arabian response:

Pic no 1 : the Arabian source is able to identify the left one, and it means "Training/Exercise"

Pic no 2: very difficult to recognize, but it is a name, presumably of a camp, like "Alpha" or "Tango"

Pic no 3: "Allah, Country, King" in this exact sequence -it is obviously the motto of the Jordanians because that of the Saudis is in a different sequence "Allah, King, Country".

So we have most likely modern inscriptions , courtesy of the Jordanian Armed forces, training exercise in the desert

[Guest Bill Woerlee]

Egbert

G'day mate

Your translations sounds more like a practice run for "Dancing with the Stars" rather than anything from the Jordanian Army - maybe it was a set from "Dancing with Celebrity Survivors 11".

Cheers

Bill

[Guest Bill Woerlee]

Domsim

G'day mate

Thanks for that. I will check it out for myself.

Cheers

Bill

[domsim]

Egbert

Thanks for the translations-seems to date them as modern pretty well-thanks to everybody else for their comments and interest as well

Cheers

Dominic

[Martin Bennitt]

Just got the reply I was seeking from my friend in Amman which adds a bit more. See below

However it also raises the question of how original these trenches might be. If Jordanian troops are still using the area for training, could they have dug the trenches themselves, or at least 'improved' them?

cheers Martin B

Hiya Martin,

I definitely wish you and your pals all the best in trying to unravel the mysteries of Word War I.

I looked at the google pictures and, lo and behold, no mysterious message there, no scoop but ... here's what I got.

First picture, three words: "Midan - Al-Tadreeb - Al-Khass". It translates into "Special Training Field".

Second picture, two words: "Katibat Al-Nashama". Now it gets more interesting. Katibat means Battalion. Al-Nashama is a more complex word that means anything from "bravery" to "gallantry".

But then again when I asked a Jordanian friend (and former member of the armed forces) whether this battalion exists, he laughed and said: "No, this is the popular nickname given all round in Jordan to the National Football Team!!!!!!"

The third picture is more simple and definitely one of the main logos used by the army: "Allah - Al-Watan - Al-Malek" ie "God, The Country, The King".

All in all, yes it does seem to be a training camp for the Jordanian armed forces who have desert bases across Jordan, including the region around Maan.

Bests, HALA

[domsim]

hi martin

Thanks for the additional information and thank your friends for taking the trouble to help. As you say some of these trenches are probably modern or re-used. However I know some are definetly WW1 period as i have German and British aerial photographs, mostly from 1918, that show them at Ma'an as well as around a number of the other Hejaz railway stations in southern Jordan.

Cheers

Dominic

[silchetser_john]

hi martin

Thanks for the additional information and thank your friends for taking the trouble to help. As you say some of these trenches are probably modern or re-used. However I know some are definetly WW1 period as i have German and British aerial photographs, mostly from 1918, that show them at Ma'an as well as around a number of the other Hejaz railway stations in southern Jordan.

Cheers

Dominic

These trenches are definatleyWW1 period as I have been there and walked along them.