Still struggling with these records

[Jerrymurland]

Still trying to track down the movements of my elusive grandfather Douglas Allen Watts. so fat: Gallipoli with the SEM Brigade in 1915-16. Sussex Yeomanry then off to Egypt, still as infantry and never to be mounted again. At some point at the end of 1917 or beginning of 1918 Douglas joins the RAF/RAF. His flying training was in Egypt. I've posted his RAF records found at Kew but still having some difficulty in placing some of his units. For instance where was 23 TDS? and in the 'Outgoing Authority' column is it Cadre Depot 292 - is that a unit? what about 55Wg - 55 wing perhaps? I've also had no luck in running down 57 FS - must be in Egypt somewhere? Any help guys would be gratefully received.

Jerry Murland

[Jerrymurland]

Here's the second record:

[Jerrymurland]

Try Again!!

[mickdavis]

195 Training Squadron was at Abu Sueir, Egypt, on 1.4.1918, as part of 32 Wing. It had been formed the previous August. It served as an elementary Training squadron.

57 Training Squadron (it's TS not FS) was also at Abu Sueir but was re-designated 17 Training Depot Station on 21.7.1918 - it's interesting that it was still referred to as 57 TS, although some units in Egypt did retain their identities within the new units (22 TS for example in 60 TDS). It was mainly equipped with Avro 504 and BE2e.

23 Training Depot Station was at Baldonnel, Ireland, in 3 Wing. It had a nominal establishment of 36 DH4/9 and 36 Avro 504, but also operated RE8 and BE2e.

55 (Training) Wing was also in Ireland, its HQ by 1919 being at Tallaght (also known as Cookstown and home to 25 TDS).

[Jerrymurland]

Nice one mick, thanks

Jerry

[Jerrymurland]

Another thought, what was the criteria for moving from elementary flying training to 57 Training squadron? How many hours flying and on what aircraft? Presumably when he 'passed out' of 57 Squadron he was posted home to Ireland - what did a training depot station do?

Jerry

[mickdavis]

Pilot training was done in stages. The first part was at an elementary TS and took a pilot to solo stage. By 1918, this included 15 hours solo. Pupils then passed to a higher TS for flying training on service machines and an introduction to tactical work which completed the second and third training stages. The third stage usually involved a detachment to a specialist school (in Egypt there was 3 School of Navigation & Bomb Dropping at Helwan and the aerial Fighting School at Heliopolis that became 5 Fighting School).

Often. elementary and higher TS were at different stations and training was expensive in terms of time. TDS were the solution to this. They were piloted from autumn 1917 and introduced wholesale from summer 1918. Thet provided all-through training hence, in the case of 23 TDS, Avros and DHs. Your grandfather must have been intended to become a day light bombing pilot - TDS had specialist functions that were reflected in the equipment.

Do you have any serials for the aeroplanes he flew?

[Jerrymurland]

Mick, the pictures I have are all in a previous post here:

 

As far as I can gather the war ended before Douglas got his wings. He is gazetted as 2/lt with effect from 19th March 1918 but his aeroplane crash was on 18.3.1918 (see records). I was wondering if Lance Corporal Douglas Watts was doing his elementary flying training as an NCO and then commissioned after? Was this usual?

Jerry

[mickdavis]

There were still NCO pilots bring trained in 1918 and remaining as such on posting to operational units.Your grandfather must have had something that warranted his commisioning. After 1/4/1918 most trainees were classed as Flight Cadets, on lower basic pay and flight pay than 2Lts

[Jerrymurland]

Mick, is there a good source for information on RFC Training - published book or online info?

Jerry

[mickdavis]

There's a little bit in the Official History. Most of any knowledge I have comes from looking at as many logbooks and Training Transfer Cards as possible - I'm more interested in what happened at home (training, HD and Marine Operations) than in who shot who down.