Did W.L Robinson deserve the V.C?

[Thomas]

W.L Robinson won the Victoria Cross in 1916 for shooting down a zepplin over Enfield, England. This was important for moral on the home front but did shotting down a zepplin entitle him for a V.C when other brave deeds were being done by soldiers and airmen on the Western Front and else where.

[BlackSeptember1918]

An interesting question Thomas . I guess on the face of it , it seems a little over the top to award a V.C. . But also it must be remembered that at the time it was a major feat . The thing that I find most interesting is that the V.C. started a chain of events that ended in Leefe-Robinson dying a broken man . The award landed him as a Flight Commander in the new Brisfit Squadron No 48 . Many people have critisised his tactics the day he and others of his flight were shot down and he was taken prisoner . I believed that for a long time . But after reading " Pi in the Sky " by William Harvey I have slightly altered my opinion . Harvey even in 1918 advocated the use of the Brisfit in tight defensive formations using the combined firepower of the defensive weapons in some circumstances . So perhaps L/R was a victim of the lewis guns freezing up and just finding Jasta 11 in their best form ? . Certainly the Bf2b proved to be a great dogfighter ...I guess it's just that I don't see his mistakes quite so black and white anymore .

Anyway , back to the V.C. . As I'm sure your aware , being a holder of the highest valour award made things tough for Leefe-Robinson as a P.O.W. . Perhaps it could be said that the award led to his eventual death .

Phil.

[Terry]

If I recall correctly, awards for shooting down zeppelins gradually were downscaled as the war went on. From Leefe Robinson's VC, I think that the next few resulted in DSO's, and by the end of the war, decorations of the MC/DFC range. Robert Leckie, the Scottish-Canadian who later commanded the RCAF in World War Two, shot down two of them. He earned a DSC for shooting down L.22 in May,1917 and a DFC for L70 in 1918 to go with his DSO he also won in other operations.

[Guest Tom Brearley]

There was comment at the time that Robinson had only been doing his duty and had not deserved the VC. Peter Cooksley in his Air VCs book quotes a letter to him (Cooksley) from a fellow POW:

"Robinson was of more than usual interest as he'd won the Victoria Cross, and there were, of course, people who thought he had been unduly highly decorated for what he did. However, he was the lucky one (with respect) and public opinion made him a national hero." - p.73, 1999 edition.

Obviously, it was in the Government's interests in 1916 to make the most of a rare success against the Zeppelins, and, to be fair, it was only reflecting the mood of the nation in this.

It would be niaive to think that VCs are awarded in isolation from the political interests of the government of the day - witness the award of eleven to the defenders of Rorke's Drift on the same day as the embarrassing disaster of Isandlwana in 1879.

Tom

[MikeW]

Was Robinson's VC not a combination of press hype and the fact that he did the job in front of a British audience?

Warneford's VC gained for destroying LZ37 on 7th June 1915, was in my opinion, a more deserving award.

Having said that, I think that given the circumstances and the aircraft used, a Morane in Warneford's case and a BE12 in Robinson's victory, what lesser award could be justified? You can say what you like about Robinson's dismal failure when he was catapulted to prominence by the press and somewhat unwisely given command of a flight of Bristol Fighters, to fight in the dire BE12 and emerge victorious showed the highest degree of valour.

Mike

[Dolphin]

I apologise for being a pedant, but there are few points that I thought I’d try to clarify:

Lt William Leefe-Robinson was flying BE2c 2693 (not a BE12) of No 39 Sqn RFC on 2/3 September 1916 when he brought down the German Army Schütte Lanz airship SL 11 (Hauptmann Wilhelm Schramm);

Capt W Leefe-Robinson VC was flying Bristol F2A A3337 of No 48 Sqn when he was brought down by Vizefeldwebel Sebastian Festner of Jasta 11 on 5 April 1917.

Raymond Rimmel’s 'Zepplelin!' is an excellent account of the German Airship raids on Britain – it's highly recommended. Among other aspecxts, the bopk gives a very good idea of the public reaction to the downing of SL 11. The Government could probably not avoid awarding a VC to a hero as popular as Leefe-Robinson.

[armourersergeant]

I can not find it in me to question that someone is not worthy of a medal they have recieved especially the VC but i have wondered on occasions if some issued were done not so much for heroics but for 'political' reasons.

The comments about Rourkes Drift are a point in fact. One point for clarification though did i dream it or does a citation for a VC have to be witnessed by a senior officer to that being recommended and if so who was higher than Bromhead and Chard at the defence?

I have studied an officer recently in an autobio and felt the issuing of a VC was not really justified as what he did was in my humbble opinion not exceptionally brave but as i say descency and respect have stopped me from asking this similar question previously.

Arm.

[MikeW]

Dolphin,

sorry about the BE12 vs BE2, I was quoting from memory and it was too late to go downstairs and check! The BE2 was an even more unlikely gun platform than the dismal BE12, and makes the feat even more remarkable!

Mike

[Guest paddy]

G'day

In 2001 a 9 year old was given a school project on who he considered to be the greatest person in history. He started on Einstein, but switched to Simpson. Hope the final page appears below.

[Guest Joe Doyle]

Gentlemen:

I think we have to remember, a new weapon, at a new time, under new circumstances. Victoria Cross, Pour le Merite, Legion d' Honneur the conditions that they were awarded in 1914, 15 did not match the conditions used in 1917, 18.

If they had half the German Air Force would be wearing the Blue Max. Not to forget the VC.

Regards

Joe

[Guest Tom Brearley]

Mike's point about the BE2c is well made - while attacking SL11 from below Robinson shot away part of his own top wing due to his poor field of fire.

Tom

[Thomas]

Thanks to everyone for their comments and opinions. It's much appreciated!

[Guest Biplane pilot]

Joe Doyle's observation is spot on. In 1915 any sort of air combat was a novelty; bagging a Zep was therefore considered of immense significance. The fact that only one other VC was awarded for a Zep proves that the awards board recognized the evolving nature of air warfare. It may be that L-R received the VC partly because Warneford had.

It's also interesting that of the 19 air VCs, eight were awarded before 1917, so the intensity of air combat from '17 onward resulted in proportionately fewer gongs.

MJ Crook's study of the evolution of the VC notes that from the Boer War onward, increasing attention was paid to "performance of duty." Advent of lesser medals helped alleviate VC "inflation" but there was also a greater awareness of scale. For instance, Ball, McCudden, Mannock, and Proctor received the highest award for "career record" rather than one spectacular instance.

Despite such glitches as Bishop and Jerrard, the VC has been better administered than the MoH. See Tillman's "Above & Beyond: the Aviation Medals of Honor" from Smithsonian Press.