Service History

[aussieted]

I had this thread on "Badges" and it was suggested placing it in this section.

I have only just registered and I hope someone can assist me as my father never spoke of his early years and I am the last surviving child of my father, Francis Henry Edwin Perry born Plymouth Devon 22nd June 1897.

I live in Australia and am attempting to collate records, medals, photo's for my children and grandchildren.

I myself spent six years in the Australian regular Army 55/61 and records I found indicate my dad was in Army service WW2 in Australia with a rank of Corporal from Feb 42 to Feb 45.

It had been suggested many years ago my Dad was in Royal Navy and skipped ship which I did not know about. I eventually found a photo of him and of family all in Navy uniforms possibly taken around 1912. I then managed to search UK National Archives WW1 and found an official number J21677. I now have a record sheet that I find hard to understand, eg:- service 1915-12yrs seems to conflict with age on entry to service shows 1912, Which were land bases or ships, What medals he should have got, Was he on HMS ship "Colossus" in battle of Jutland and what is note on line 21/6/15 in remarks about 3 years June 15 and Ledger, Did he run once or twice, Also in line with "1918" arrow pointing to "If man recovered apply for 1918 ?".

I have tried to attach his record in ADM188/690 reference 177/177 but the original PDF file was over the attachment limit so I have scanned and attached in a lower PDF format. Any help and explanations would be appreciated.

Regards Ted Perry

SerRec.pdf

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

He enlisted in 1915 FOR 12 Years service from that date.

[Previous service was as a Boy,hence the "J" prefix,& is not shown as "reckonable";though looking @ his Ships served on shows him serving from 3rd Dec.1912.]

At the time of Jutland he appears to be serving on HMS President?{between two bouts @ VividII,HMS Diligence,Vivid II again,Oporto{Forester};Blenheim ,two more stints @ Vivid II, & the post war period aboard Greenwich,A Depot Repair Ship{1919}he was aboard Colossus from 1913~October 1915.

He should have the:~ 1914~15 Star ~ British War Medal ~ Allied Victory Medal.

Naval records unfortunately;often do not carry the Campaign Medals entered in the box for Decorations,Medals & Badges.{or if in pencil they do not show on P/Copies}

[kevinrowlinson]

Hi Ted,

I am sure you have already done some more research but the things that I notice are he earnt his long service stripe ( under badges ) for 3 years service. This would have been one stripe worn on left arm. Under rating I can only suppose it reads acting seaman gunner, then seaman gunner for 7 Jan 1916, except at that date he was at HMS Vivid 1 which I thought was a shore signals base. To be honest it is hard to read but what you say about the "3 years june 15 and ledger" may refer to his increase in pay after 3 years service.

Regards Kevin

[aussieted]

He enlisted in 1915 FOR 12 Years service from that date.

[Previous service was as a Boy,hence the "J" prefix,& is not shown as "reckonable";though looking @ his Ships served on shows him serving from 3rd Dec.1912.]

At the time of Jutland he appears to be serving on HMS President?{between two bouts @ VividII,HMS Diligence,Vivid II again,Oporto{Forester};Blenheim ,two more stints @ Vivid II, & the post war period aboard Greenwich,A Depot Repair Ship{1919}he was aboard Colossus from 1913~October 1915.

He should have the:~ 1914~15 Star ~ British War Medal ~ Allied Victory Medal.

Naval records unfortunately;often do not carry the Campaign Medals entered in the box for Decorations,Medals & Badges.{or if in pencil they do not show on P/Copies}

Thank you for those details. It appears he spent lots of terms on "shore" ships. Would I assume that the last entry "Cairo" is maybe the city not the ship & then he came to Australia from there . It still amazes me how you can "run" & set up a new life in another country.

Regards Ted Perry

[aussieted]

Hi Ted,

I am sure you have already done some more research but the things that I notice are he earnt his long service stripe ( under badges ) for 3 years service. This would have been one stripe worn on left arm. Under rating I can only suppose it reads acting seaman gunner, then seaman gunner for 7 Jan 1916, except at that date he was at HMS Vivid 1 which I thought was a shore signals base. To be honest it is hard to read but what you say about the "3 years june 15 and ledger" may refer to his increase in pay after 3 years service.

Regards Kevin

Thanks for that imfo Kevin. I managed to reproduce a photo taken of my Dad when he appeared to be about 18 yrs old. I took it to a navy guy I know that specialises in medal mounting & he said the badge that faintly appears on his right arm would indicate he was an Able Seaman Gunners Mate 1st Class. When I look closely at the photo there could be something on his left arm but is very difficult to define, it was taken some 90/92yrs ago & I am supprised how good it really is. Its a shame that a lot of old photos & details are somethimes discarded by family members, I just wished I was living closer to some of my family so that I may have had an opportunity to salvage lots of treasures.

Regards Ted

[joseph]

Ted,

The bottom right remark dated 1923 is a request for his discharge papers, there may have been an amnesty, or he gave himself up.

Regards Charles

[horatio2]

Ted, An RN service history would not have the name of a foreign city as a ship served in. HMS CAIRO was a newly commissioned (Sep 1919) light cruiser and he deserted from her. Where she was when he ran I do not know but she could have been in a UK port.

[joseph]

4th light cruiser sdn East Indies, in 1920. So could have done a bunk in Australia.

Regards charles

[Bart150]

Ted

There are one or two straightforward points about your father’s record that nobody has mentioned. Here are some notes – just in case you find anything new:

HMS Vivid was the Navy’s name for the Devonport Naval Base.

Impregnable was a training ship at Devonport.

Gibraltar was an old cruiser used as a depot ship.

Colossus was a battleship.

President is a tricky one as you can see from http://www.tvwiki.tv/wiki/HMS_President. Probably the entity that was known as HMS President in 1916 was a training ship – located I don’t know where.

“Diligence (Mischief)” means that the sailor was actually on the destroyer Mischief, but the administration for Mischief and others in its flotilla was done by the destroyer depot ship Diligence.

“A?? (Forester??)” means that the sailor was actually on the destroyer Forester, but the administration was done by the destroyer depot ship A??.

“Blenheim (,,)” means that the sailor was actually on the destroyer Forester, but the administration was done by the destroyer depot ship Blenheim.

“Vivid III (,,)” means that the sailor was actually on the destroyer Forester, but Forester was based at Devonport and the administration for her was done by the Devonport shore base.

“Greenwich (Walker)” means that the sailor was actually on the destroyer Walker, but the administration was done by the destroyer depot ship Greenwich.

??? (Walker) means that the sailor was actually on the destroyer Walker, but the administration was done by the destroyer depot ship ???.

Cairo was a cruiser.

On the date of the Battle of Jutland your father was on HMS President, so not in action.

If you are ever in England (ha!) you could go the National Archives at Kew and read the logbooks of most of these ships. They are very terse, but they do tell you where in the world a ship was each day.

Best wishes

Bart

[aussieted]

Hi Horatio2, Charles, Bart.

Thank you all for the most current responses. I am having lots of problems with my computer and am a little erratic on getting onto net. I guess my response to Bart is that I am glad I was in the Aus Reg Army & not the UK Navy it was very straight forward where I was. As for coming to Kew, my wife would possibly say it would be quicker than the time I spend on my computer. You have simplified the mystery to me of the ships & shore bases. One question still a mystery is the entry down from the circle & arrow "if man recovered apply for 1918 "?" A". In searching all these things I think I have located my Grandfather Francis John Perry born

I think 1872/73 who going by very, very old photo was in Royal Navy also.

Kind regards to you al

Ted Perryl

[joseph]

Ted,

The "circle & arrow "if man recovered apply for 1918 "?" A". is asking for an Annual assessment if he is recovered, these Service Certificates are duplicates completed some time after the event and the 1918 assessment has been missed.

Regards Charles

[aussieted]

Thank you Charles.

And to all you guys answering and responding in this forum a very big thank you. You all make finding relatives service history and events interesting and fullfulling, now once all compiled and documented I can pass on lots of worthwhile imfo and treasures for my grandchildren.

As I pointed out, I think I found my Grandfathers service number, so be prepaired.

Regards to you all

Ted Perry