mhifle Posted 28 September , 2006 Share Posted 28 September , 2006 This is not really WWI related but I was wondering if anyone knows of WWI airships found on the seabed. Mark "Thu Sep 28, 12:15 AM ET On Feb. 12, 1935, during severe weather off Point Sur, Calif., a U.S. Navy flying machine called the USS Macon fell from the sky, plunged into the Pacific Ocean, and sank it was the nation's largest rigid, lighter-than-air craft, and the last of its kind This month researchers documented the wreckage of the 785-foot dirigible. From a Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute’s (MBARI) research ship, scientists deployed a remotely operated vehicle to capture high-definition video and still images of wreckage. Images show the airship's hangar bay, containing four Sparrowhawk biplanes, five of the eight 12-cylinder gasoline engines, and objects from the ship's galley, including two sections of the aluminum stove, propane tanks that supplied fuel for it and a dining table and bench. A second debris field contained the Macon's bow section, including the mooring mast receptacle, plus aluminum chairs and desks that may have been in a port side officers' or meteorologist's office. The exact location of the submerged wreckage remained a mystery for nearly 50 years until a commercial fisherman snagged a piece of the USS Macon’s girder in his net, and ended up displaying the artifact at a local seafood restaurant. Meanwhile, researchers had attempted to locate the airship remains with no luck, because the objects weren’t at the recorded sinking location. In the early 1990s they finally spotted the wreckage at a depth of 1,000 feet. The new survey included researchers from the NOAA National Marine Sanctuary program, MBARI, the University of New Hampshire and Stanford University. The researchers will now investigate the level of preservation of the artifacts and whether further research at the site is feasible." Photo,s include, Mooring mast receptacle assembly, Desk drawer, and Port wing of Cutiss Sparrowhawk F9C-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 29 September , 2006 Share Posted 29 September , 2006 Never heard of any being found, but certainly several were lost over the channel or North Sea, L70 being the largest. But I don't know how much aluminium would have survived this long, and since the exact locations were rarely pinpointed we would be reliant on chance to find any. I doubt that aluminium girders would show up on mapping equipment in the way that large ships do - and even the image of something like Bismark was very difficult to interpret. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 29 September , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 September , 2006 Thanks Adrian, Is there anywhere with a record of locations for downed airships for WWI. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 30 September , 2006 Share Posted 30 September , 2006 Some books on the subject, such as Ray Rimell's "Zeppelin!" give a general idea, but I've never seen specific latitude and longitude records such as we often have for ships. The crew of an attacking aeroplane would hardly have been in a position to take sextant readings which was the only way at the time, nor would there be an expectation for them to do so. But possibly other members might have more info....? The only advantage a search team might have is that the North Sea is very shallow compared with the Atlantic; the ships lost at Jutland are in water much shallower than their own length. But the water is notoriously muddy. And don't forget the airships would be War Graves, unlike Macon where only three men died. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jempie Posted 2 October , 2006 Share Posted 2 October , 2006 Hi! What goes on the Macon, the real interest was to salvage a Sparrowhawk plane if possible in function for restauration of this plane for museums use! Seems none of this type was preserved! What goes on the WWI - war-zeppelins ? Indeed no real exact position is given up! However: L7 : damaged by the cruisers "Galatea" and "Phaeton" at Horns Reef . 11crew killed and 7 made POW... So quite correct position should to be known by means of their warshipslogs? L 15 emergency landing on North Sea environment Knocks Deep...only one of the crew was killed! The others made pow by British warships ! She was still floating ! So a less or more accurate position should have to be found into the shipslogs? L19 Crew drowned after the King Stephan (Fischer ship) commandant let them down, refused to take them on board fearing they would takeover his ship to escape to Holland or such! L12 was towed up by the germans to Ostend harbour but got during dismantling in fire...(I guess due to the dock steamcranes fourfire and escaping gas!) L23 was shot down by Lt B. A. Smart near Jutland... L34 shot down near Hartlepool (Over sea ?) L43 was sot down over the North Sea (no specific location given up!) L50 disappeared over the Mediterrenean Sea (Never atrace was found from this airship afterwards) L53 shot down near Terschelling (The Netherlands) L59 crashed burning into sea after probably been hit by lightning near Otranto (Corsica) Withnessed by crew of U-boat U53 (So that psition should have been less or more known? L62 destroyed near Heligoland (Helgoland) by lightning or ennemy action ? L72 became the "Dixmude" (War reparation to France) probaly destroyed by lightning in a storm..burned/exploded . Mediterranean Sea . position must be known to French authorities as I know the did dive to the wreckage! But is considered as Military seamensgrave! (It happend about 18-12-1923!) Only 2 crew (amongst Commander Jean du Plessis) were fished up by Corsican seamen. The rest of the crew remained "missing"! Got "a sailors grave". Maybe I forgot one or more? Also I remember to have seen on one particular zeppelin, photo's divers salvaging the wreckage! But which one? Might be L 10 ? Hit by lightning and probably also crashed into North Sea somehere? No survivors as well! If there would be interest, it's about sure , when finances would be found, some of these above could be traced I guess? In total , it seems , some 73 zeppelins were used by the Germans during WWI... 23 destroyed by ennemy action...30 due to weather or stranded (18!) or other circumstancies! (12 burned into their sheds!) 12 scrapped as outmodished. vbr Jempie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 2 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2006 Thanks for the information. I did not realise quite how big the Macon was until I found this photo last night. Mark Hi! What goes on the Macon, the real interest was to salvage a Sparrowhawk plane if possible in function for restauration of this plane for museums use! Seems none of this type was preserved! What goes on the WWI - war-zeppelins ? Indeed no real exact position is given up! However: L7 : damaged by the cruisers "Galatea" and "Phaeton" at Horns Reef . 11crew killed and 7 made POW... So quite correct position should to be known by means of their warshipslogs? L 15 emergency landing on North Sea environment Knocks Deep...only one of the crew was killed! The others made pow by British warships ! She was still floating ! So a less or more accurate position should have to be found into the shipslogs? L19 Crew drowned after the King Stephan (Fischer ship) commandant let them down, refused to take them on board fearing they would takeover his ship to escape to Holland or such! L12 was towed up by the germans to Ostend harbour but got during dismantling in fire...(I guess due to the dock steamcranes fourfire and escaping gas!) L23 was shot down by Lt B. A. Smart near Jutland... L34 shot down near Hartlepool (Over sea ?) L43 was sot down over the North Sea (no specific location given up!) L50 disappeared over the Mediterrenean Sea (Never atrace was found from this airship afterwards) L53 shot down near Terschelling (The Netherlands) L59 crashed burning into sea after probably been hit by lightning near Otranto (Corsica) Withnessed by crew of U-boat U53 (So that psition should have been less or more known? L62 destroyed near Heligoland (Helgoland) by lightning or ennemy action ? L72 became the "Dixmude" (War reparation to France) probaly destroyed by lightning in a storm..burned/exploded . Mediterranean Sea . position must be known to French authorities as I know the did dive to the wreckage! But is considered as Military seamensgrave! (It happend about 18-12-1923!) Only 2 crew (amongst Commander Jean du Plessis) were fished up by Corsican seamen. The rest of the crew remained "missing"! Got "a sailors grave". Maybe I forgot one or more? Also I remember to have seen on one particular zeppelin, photo's divers salvaging the wreckage! But which one? Might be L 10 ? Hit by lightning and probably also crashed into North Sea somehere? No survivors as well! If there would be interest, it's about sure , when finances would be found, some of these above could be traced I guess? In total , it seems , some 73 zeppelins were used by the Germans during WWI... 23 destroyed by ennemy action...30 due to weather or stranded (18!) or other circumstancies! (12 burned into their sheds!) 12 scrapped as outmodished. vbr Jempie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 2 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 October , 2006 A Cutiss F9C Sparrowhawk about to hook onto the trapeze lowered from the belly of the airshipto retrieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 3 October , 2006 Share Posted 3 October , 2006 Mark I presume you know that the Macon's sister ship Akron crashed into the sea in heavy weather two years earlier. Whereas with the Macon only two men died, sadly 73 men died on the Akron, including Rear-Admiral Moffat, C-in-C of the USN airship division. Only three men survived: this was the biggest loss of life in a single aircraft until at least the 1950's (unless more died aboard Luftwaffe ME323s?). Akron and Macon were filled with helium, not hydrogen. If the history of civil (and peacetime military) airship use is analysed, bad weather was far more a problem than use of hydrogen. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jempie Posted 6 October , 2006 Share Posted 6 October , 2006 Mark I presume you know that the Macon's sister ship Akron crashed into the sea in heavy weather two years earlier. Whereas with the Macon only two men died, sadly 73 men died on the Akron, including Rear-Admiral Moffat, C-in-C of the USN airship division. Only three men survived: this was the biggest loss of life in a single aircraft until at least the 1950's (unless more died aboard Luftwaffe ME323s?). Akron and Macon were filled with helium, not hydrogen. If the history of civil (and peacetime military) airship use is analysed, bad weather was far more a problem than use of hydrogen. Adrian THe AKRON also crashed into the sea as reslt of weathercircumstances indeed ... It had no Sparrowhawk planes on board! Whereas it was a demonstration flight on which many guests, politicians and engeneers end such, (no crewmembers) were on board which explains the number of victims that day. Another airship (J-3) which had to go in search for the AKRON also crashed into a river or sea. The use of helium was introduced into the USA Navy for their dirigibles after the catastrophy of the "Roma", an Italian constructed airship which was bought by the Americans. (1922) The "Roma" was the RS-1 of the Navy. (Semi-Rigid) She came into collision with electric wires and got in fire! 1922 the contract was signed between the USA (Goodyear) and the firm Zeppelin to construct rigid airship into the USA and the firm Good Year-Zeppelin was grounded. Which rersulted into the construction of the Akron "Good Year -Zeppelin shed" and the construction of the "Akron" and "Macon"! Further as warreparation the firm Zeppelin at Friedrichshafen contructed for the USA the LZ 126 (ZR-3 "Los Angeles") 1924. In fact the zeppelin which had the longest lifetime of all ever constructed! She was scrapped 1939-1940 after a succesfull carreer! ZR-1 "Shenandoach" 5home USA rigid following "zeppelin-plans constructed and the ZR-2 British (R-38)constructed rigid following zeppelin-plans for delivery to the USA..;broke both up into two into the air and crashed. In fact ZR2/ R-38 was contructed following "high-climbers" framework plans and got 2 extra motors midships and broke up by a speed test on low altitude...the framework strenght (contruction) wasn't foreseen on such! The air resistance (and forces) on the structure was to high for! vbr Jempie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jempie Posted 6 October , 2006 Share Posted 6 October , 2006 To Remember! R101 (British biggest airship crashed an burned at Alonne / France on 5th october 1930 making 50 death... As result airships use into the Brittain was abandoned! The cardington sheds (2 sheds) in which it was constrcuted and sheltered still exists! However Shed nr 2 is for sale and her further existence is endagered! (See http://www.airshipsonline.com)! So good as the only airship sheds still existing into the U.K. ! vbr Jempie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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