C E F - Order of Battle 11 November 1918

[cahoehler]

. . . . Below are two snippets from the war diary of the Canadian [Corps] Heavy Artillery. . . . .

Justin

These snippets clearly show 51st Howitzer as part of the S A Heavy Artillery AND having 6" Howizers.

I think the War Diary is in error (but I have been wrong before) and I am sure that EssDee will find the appropriate allocations. rflory has already said there is no record of 51 being in SAHA.

We now need Borden Battery to pronounce.

BTW do C E F battery numbers overlap R G A battery numbers?

From Nicholson page 135

From Nicholson page 516

Corps Heavy Artillery

1st Brigade, C.G.A

1st Siege Battery

3rd Siege Battery

7th Siege Battery

9th Siege Battery

2nd Brigade, C.G.A.

1st Heavy Battery

2nd Heavy Battery

2nd Siege Battery

4th Siege Battery

5th Siege Battery

6th Siege Battery

3rd Brigade, C.G.A.

8th Siege Battery

10th Siege Battery

11th Siege Battery

12th Siege Battery

5th Divisional Artillery

13th Brigade, C.F.A.

52nd Field Battery

53rd Field Battery

55th Field Battery

51st Howitzer Battery

14th Brigade, C.F.A.

60th Field Battery

61st Field Battery

66th Field Battery

58th Howitzer Battery

5th Division Ammunition Column

5th Divisional Artillery Motor Transport Detachment

5th Divisional Train Detachment, C.A.S.C.

Army Troops (Attached to the British Expeditionary Force)

8th Army Brigade, C.F.A.

24th Field Battery

30th Field Battery

32nd Field Battery

43rd Howitzer Battery

8th Army Brigade Ammunition Column

Carl Hoehler

[Graham Stewart]

The Order of Battle of the 5th Canadian Division does infact show a 51st(Howitzer)Bty, while based in England. The Brigade and batteries are listed as;-

5th(Canadian)Division - Division broken up February 1918.

XIII(Canadian)Bde,C.F.A. - To Canadian Corps Troops August 1917.

52nd Bty,C.F.A.

53rd Bty,C.F.A.

55th Bty,C.F.A.

51st(Howitzer)Bty - became 51st(D)Bty, and equipped with 6x 4.5in Howitzers 1918.

XIV(Canadian)Bde,C.F.A. - To Canadian Corps Troops August 1917.

60th Bty,C.F.A.

61st Bty,C.F.A.

66th Bty,C.F.A.

58th(Howitzer)Bty - became 58th(D)Bty, and equipped with 6x 4.5in Howitzers 1918.

XV(Canadian)Bde,C.F.A.

Broken up August 1917.

The 5th(Canadian)Divisional Artillery went onto to serve as Army Troops, 1st Army and remained with them until 11th November 1918.

Graham.

[cahoehler]

. . . 51st(Howitzer)Bty - became 51st(D)Bty, and equipped with 6x 4.5in Howitzers 1918. . . .

Graham

Thanks

I should have mentioned the problem is with the artillery order of battle at Mount Sorrel in June 1916 and only this morning have I found out that only the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Canadian Divisions were in France then.

Carl Hoehler

[essdee]

Carl

I think your the victim of the various sources using the incorrect terms. Nicholson refers to 51st, 71st & 72nd Howitzer batteries when clearly these should read Siege Batteries. It then makes sense with regard to the various Allocation details and does not confuse 51st Siege with the 51st Howitzer battery of the Divisional Field Artillery.

Looking at the diary extract Justin posted, I again think its a case of mistaken notation. The SA (44th) Brigade was raised as such and arrive in France shortly after the formation of Heavy Artillery Groups. The various HA Brigades are thereafter refered to as HAGs, so it is odd to see them refered to as the SA Heavy Brigade in June.

Also, with regard to Nicholson, the various artillery formations listed suggest to me a three division front with 1 HAG per division, a division in reserve and each of the three being allotted one of the 'spare' 6 " howitzers under divisional control. The 12" hows of 86 Siege are under Corps control. Of course its a bit of an assumption, but it would explain why the list is written in the way it is.

Stuart

[cahoehler]

. . . . of the various sources using the incorrect terms.

. . . . confuse 51st Siege with the 51st Howitzer battery of the Divisional Field Artillery.

. . . . I again think its a case of mistaken notation. The SA (44th) Brigade was raised as such and arrived in France shortly after the formation of Heavy Artillery Groups. The various HA Brigades are thereafter refered to as HAGs, so it is odd to see them refered to as the SA Heavy Brigade in June.

Stuart

Another one for EssDee - thanks a lot.

Of course it all now makes sense.

Carl Hoehler