what next

[sazzy]

hi everyone

i was wondering if anyone can help (hopefully i've posted this in the section) i've been trying to research my great grandad on behalf on my grandad who doesn't appear to know anything about him. my great grandad was John William Sutcliffe from burmantoft leeds he served in a yorkshire regiment? and then the horse artillery his reg number was 786098 i've seen his medal card but don't understand any of it, i'm not sure how to attach it.what can i do next what does a medal card tell you. thanks for looking i'm afraid i'm a tad unless

sarah

[trin1054]

Sarah,

as someone who is also new to this I can sympathise

I presume you have the medal card as a set of six on a pdf file? If so I can give you a few instructions on how to get it posted on this site - just let me know.

Having done this before, the medal card may or may not contain a great deal of information (it's worth posting it either way). I've found everyone to be extremely helpful and full of info once they've taken a look.

Cheers,

Marc

[sazzy]

thanks marc i've been trying all morning to add the attachment i'm now bordering on pulling all my hair out!!!! i've got the medal card on pdf just as u said when i try to attach it it sayes its too big even when its as small as it would go please please help

kind regards sarah

[trin1054]

Ok, this is how I do it (there may well be easier ways...):

1. Using the snapshot tool in Adobe Acrobat (it looks like a little camera), 'grab' your grandfather's card by left-clicking and holding whist dragging across the image. Once done, the image is now on your clipboard.

2. Go to: Windows Menu, Programs, Accessories, Paint.

3. Once you're in Paint: Edit, Paste - the medal card should now appear.

4. Trim the extra white area by the image by dragging the bottom right blue dot up to the bottom right corner of the image.

5. Save this as a jpeg file in the (using 'save as type' menu option) to wherever you like. It should

now be small enough to attach to your post.

See how you get on!

Marc

[nfh249]

OK Sarah, I hope this is the right J W Sutcliffe!

Regards,

Neil.

[nfh249]

Sarah,

The card tells you that he was a Cpl in the RHA and that he was entitled to the British War Medal and Victory medals and also a Silver War Badge, which means that he was discharged after being wounded.

The reference numbers are for the actual medal rolls that may provide more detailed information. These are not online so will require a trip to Kew (the National Archives).

Since he doesn't appear to be entitled to either of the stars (the third medal on the MIC list) he would have arrived in a theatre of war after 1915.

I'm sure there are RHA experts on here that might be able to tell you more, it may (may) be possible to determine his unit (or at least his original unit) from his number...

Regards,

Neil.

[Ken Lees]

Sarah,

If he did serve in a Yorkshire regiment then the card suggests that he transferred to the artillery before being posted overseas.

He would have also been entitled to a 'star' medal if he had served in a theatre of war before the end on 1915.

The SWB (silver war badge) reference shows that he was discharged from the Army for one of many reasons, but the most common was being 'no longer fit for service' either through wounds or sickness. The SWB Roll at the National Archives will tell you more.

Ken

[sazzy]

heres other sections of the card didn't know if it needed to be seen but we're on a roll now with adding attachments thanks for everyones help and patient wading through my many mistakes

sarah

[nfh249]

Ah well, they'll be different John William Sutcliffes...

[sazzy]

Ah well, they'll be different John William Sutcliffes...

Hello Neil, Thanks for all your help. I have six images (1 document) of a John William Sutcliffe. Are all these 6 images of the same person? I don't know what you mean by that will be a different John Sutcliffe? Have you disregarded the other five because they weren't in the Yorkshire Regiment? Sarah

[nfh249]

Hello Neil, Thanks for all your help. I have six images (1 document) of a John William Sutcliffe. Are all these 6 images of the same person? I don't know what you mean by that will be a different John Sutcliffe? Have you disregarded the other five because they weren't in the Yorkshire Regiment? Sarah

No, the six images are for six different individuals. They share the same name. I discounted the others as you referred to 786098 J W Sutcliffe as being your relative. I assumed you had already narrowed it down to him. If not, in the absence of any other information, it could be any of them, although those from a Yorkshire regiment might be more likely.

A man may have more than one card (one for the pair of medals and one for a star or a SWB) but I don't think that is the case here.

Regards,

Neil.

[sazzy]

No, the six images are for six different individuals. They share the same name. I discounted the others as you referred to 786098 J W Sutcliffe as being your relative. I assumed you had already narrowed it down to him. If not, in the absence of any other information, it could be any of them, although those from a Yorkshire regiment might be more likely.

A man may have more than one card (one for the pair of medals and one for a star or a SWB) but I don't think that is the case here.

Regards,

Neil.

thanks neil thats really helpfull 786098 is my grandad any ideas were i should go next !this is all new to me!

[Stebie9173]

Can you just confirm why you believe the 786098 number relates to your relative?

In regard to the 6 images on the one sheet, this is just a way of cutting down on the number of files that need to be stored on the National Archive computer. In 99% of cases the cards refer to six different men.

Providing that the 786098 soldier is our man then his number belongs to the Territorial force of the Royal Field Artillery, not Royal Horse Artillery.

This number belongs to the 3rd West Riding Artillery Brigade (which had 1st and 2nd Line Brigades, so two Brigades within a brigade. A bit confusing to be honest.

This would make him a part of one of two Brigades.

785001-790000 247 BDE, RFA TF/ 1/3 W RIDING BDE

CCXLVII Territorial Force 1st Line 49th Division from pre-war, broken up by 28 February 1917. Redesignated from III West Riding Brigade May 1916. Batteries from Sheffield

(In other words this was originally called the 3rd West Riding Brigade RFA and was then renamed 247th Brigade)

http://www.1914-1918.net/49div.htm

785001-790000 312 BDE, RFA TF/ 2/3 W RIDING

CCCXII Territorial Force 2nd Line 62nd Division from formation in February 1915 until November 1918. Originally designated 2/III West Riding Brigade.

(In other words this was originally called the 2nd Line of 3rd West Riding Brigade RFA and then became 312th Brigade RFA)

http://www.1914-1918.net/62div.htm

Just a matter of which one....

Hope this helps,

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Apologies if you have already read this Sazzy, I have just edited as I picked up the wrong set of numbers first time round!)

Steve.

[nfh249]

thanks neil thats really helpfull 786098 is my grandad any ideas were i should go next !this is all new to me!

Then I think a visit to Kew, or employing a researcher (or maybe a willing and helpful forum pal will do it on their next trip for you) to check the actual medal and SWB rolls. They should contain extra information, possibly including which units he served with and the reason why he was awarded a Silver War Badge.

I would also start a new thread in the 'Soldiers' section with his name, rank and unit in the title to see if there is anybody on here who could provide some more information and might have missed this thread. I'm sure there are some pals who specialise in the artillery.

Good luck!

Regards,

Neil.

[nfh249]

Ah you see, Steve fits the bill!

Neil.

[sazzy]

ahhhhh!thanks guys your're great .My grandad told me that his father( j w sutcliffe) was in the RHA when i looked at national archives i could only find one j w sutcliffe attached to the RHA, so i put 2 and 2 together and made 5?!!!( i'm under pressure as my grandad isn't well and wanted to know about his dad who died when he was 8 years old and can't remember much about him making the task in hand even harder)i found the national archives a interesting but very difficult sight to navigate round.Is the gerenal view i'm barking up the wrong tree.

sarah

[Stebie9173]

I wouldn't completely discount this man as he is obviously serving with a Brigade from the right neck of the woods.

It does depend on whether your grandad says "horse artillery", meaning the Royal Horse Artillery, or "Artillery with Horses" which definitely applies to the RFA as well.

I still can't make my mind up whether that actually says RHA (as interpreted on the index) or RFA....

Steve.

[trin1054]

I still can't make my mind up whether that actually says RHA (as interpreted on the index) or RFA....

Steve.

I personally would go for 'RHA' - I'm basing this decision on comapring the 'F' in Sutcliffe with the second letter of 'RHA' on the card. This is assuming the entire card was written by the same bloke of course...

Marc

[sazzy]

I wouldn't completely discount this man as he is obviously serving with a Brigade from the right neck of the woods.

It does depend on whether your grandad says "horse artillery", meaning the Royal Horse Artillery, or "Artillery with Horses" which definitely applies to the RFA as well.

I still can't make my mind up whether that actually says RHA (as interpreted on the index) or RFA....

Steve.

ah will try and find out

[sazzy]

I wouldn't completely discount this man as he is obviously serving with a Brigade from the right neck of the woods.

It does depend on whether your grandad says "horse artillery", meaning the Royal Horse Artillery, or "Artillery with Horses" which definitely applies to the RFA as well.

I still can't make my mind up whether that actually says RHA (as interpreted on the index) or RFA....

Steve.

hi spoke to family all agree was in the RHA .from the medal card can you tell what area the soldier is from wonderer how you knew this jw sutcliffe was from yorkshire.do you think i can asume that this man is my great grandad.

sarah

[Blackblue]

Where did you obtain his regimental number from Sarah?

If that is on paperwork or medals that someone in the family has it should also tell you which part of the Artillery he was in also. There are a few more RA experts here and hopefully someone will be able to say which formation he was in from his number. It may also be worth having someone look at the Medal Rolls and Silver War Badge Roll as these may provide more information.

Rgds

Tim

[sazzy]

hi got name and very little info from my grandad

-year born

-served in france

-RHA cpl

-wasn't killed in war

-was a yorkshire reg

went on NA could only find one john willian sutcliffe,yorkshire based in the RHA so got medal card

although did look at leeds ascent voters list and couldn't find him but there were other jw sutcliffes but not with RHA ,so rightly or wrongly guessed that i had the right man.He died (and his wife ) in 1941 from lung problems my grandad was very young,family mystery regarding there belonging all very hush,hush .now my grandad has lung problems and wants to learn about his dad but has no info to give me!!!!.If i had the correct jw sutcliffe would he have appeared on the absence voters list or could he have just been over looked.

regards sarah