Officer Training

[isanders]

I'm researching a 2nd Lieut who progressed up through the ranks to be commissioned.

Can anyone give me an indication of what the officer training consisted of?

Many thanks

Ian

[Guest mruk]

Hello Ian,

I'm sure you're probably aware, but Charles Messenger offers a very good overview in 'Call-To-Arms: The British Army 1914-1918'--including the changing character of the Officer Corps itself. [pp. 288-334]

Kind Regards,

Dave

[isanders]

I wasn't, but thankyou very much. I have now located a copy in my local library - the joys of online catalogue searches!

Ian

[PhilB]

I`ve often thought that there must have been some fascinating scenes in battalions when ranker officers were being absorbed. Prior to WW1, I imagine only long serving senior NCOs & WOs would have been commissioned and they would have "known their place". WW1 changed all that and there must have been some very tense moments in the mess. Is there a good memoir on the social side by an ex-commissioned ranker? Phil B

[isanders]

A Life Apart By Alan Thomas mentions a ranker from the Boer War, Major W. J Alderman DSO who went on to command the 6th RWK and was killed leading the Battalion at Lateau Wood on 20th Nov 1917. It doesn't mention any conflicts in the mess, but does say that he was a bit unpopular with the OR's as he knew all their dodges....

[PhilB]

Any idea what rank he was commissioned from?

[isanders]

I'll dig the book out tnight and have a look.

Ian

[edwin astill]

Johnston's diary, my current project, notes that one of his sergeants (Rouse) was invited into the officers' mess 'although he is not yet commissioned' (he had been puit up for one and had been accepted. Alas, Rouse died later on the Somme. As Rouse was a signaller I wonder if specialists had a different training route - they would already have a fair grasp of army procedures as well as being up on their specialism.

Edwin

[PhilB]

Also, I suspect that the specialists included the brighter men? Phil B

[SiegeGunner]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Sep 8 2006, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is there a good memoir on the social side by an ex-commissioned ranker?

Wullie Robertson's 'From Private to Field Marshal" ?

Mick

[Guest mruk]

I suppose specialist skills included those who had undertaken further training, or had pre-existing or recognised skills such as engineering, horsemanship, and driving, as opposed to those who were 'drilled and drilled and had lots of riding, gym and rifle instruction'. There is, however, talk of disaffection amongst not only the junior ranks put forward for commission, but the senior officers who not only 'grumbled heavily', but were openly resentful of the change in officer class. This was Padre Tanner's grievance in 1916. [see Charles Messenger p. 313]

"One thing that depresses me more than any other thing is the change in the character and attitude of the new officers. When I first came we had a wonderful lot, very friendly and helpful in every way. These new chaps are quite different. Many of them are not only indifferent to religion but openly anti-religious".

I'm not sure this is a great help, and I think that what we probably need is a breakdown of the different specialisms, the places trained, and different battalions-corps into which the men were either/or commissioned or attached.

Regards,

Dave

[squirrel]

The are some references to "Ranker" Officers in Graves's Goodbye to All That and also, perhaps not surprisingly, in Dunn's, The War The Infantry Knew.

[edwin astill]

Not all 'ranker' officers were from the 'lower orders'. Lt. Col Ogilvie of the 1/Wilts was commissioned from the rank of Corporal. He was educated at Rugby and University College Oxford. Not, I suggest, a common background for Thomas Atkins then (or even now in these egalitarian days).

ps My book on 1/Wilts and Ogilvie was given a short review in the last Stand To - all profits to the RGBW Regt. Museum at Salisbury (sorry, moderator - they are a good cause.)

Edwin

[gporta]

(...) Padre Tanner's grievance in 1916. [see Charles Messenger p. 313]

Dave, my guess is that the padre's criticism may have come from the lack of interest of the new officers in becoming part of his flock

With all the things going on in the front, I don't think that these men were very inclined to feel religious ("how does God allow THIS to happen" may have been the first step leading to anti or non-religious stances).

BTW, I too find Charles Messenger's chapter on officer training a very thorough and informative one(but, well, I rate that book as a very good one, point )

Gloria

[PhilB]

Not all 'ranker' officers were from the 'lower orders'. Lt. Col Ogilvie of the 1/Wilts was commissioned from the rank of Corporal. He was educated at Rugby and University College Oxford.

Edwin

It`s very unlikely that such a man would have been left in the ranks in National Service days. It seems amazing now that so many men who were educated and obviously officer material were allowed to go to France as privates and NCOs. I must assume there was no screening at enlistment. Perhaps, if you couldn`t get some prominent person to write to a CO on your behalf, you just had to soldier on and hope to be noticed? Phil B

[Terry_Reeves]

It may well be of course, that there were many who did not want to be officers, whatever their background or potential.

Terry Reeves

[PhilB]

Could be, Terry. It`s hard to imagine though, from our position, that a man would forego officer life to stay as a OR. Unless he had a cushy number! A look at the honours rolls of the big public schools would tend to confirm that few men served as ORs if they could have been commissioned. It`s rare to find non-officers among them, and the few that are there may have been just uncommissionable. Phil B

[wilkokcl]

It`s hard to imagine though, from our position, that a man would forego officer life to stay as a OR

My great grandfather and his brother were both from the background to be considered 'officer class' but served as privates. My ggfather survived, his brother didn't.

Both willingly signed up to do their bit but said they had no desire to obtain position or rank and 'stayed with the men'. They both served in the trenches and saw action at the Battle of the Somme.

So in that particular example, yes they did!

Mark

[IanA]

This is straying from the thread now but...

Especially in the early years of the war, there were whole battalions who were said to be 'officer material' - Artists' Rifles and H.A.C. spring to mind. Many were simply concerned to be a part of the 'great game' before it ended. Some were subsequently disillusioned and went on to officer training but some, (Aubrey Smith springs to mind) found such commradeship in the ranks that they elected to stay put.

Ian