RAF airman

[fitzee]

Looking for info on L. H. Locke who was a "gunlayer " in a DH9 shot down over Belgium in 1918. Also, was the gunner responsible for targeting and dropping the bombs, or was his job in this aircraft solely defensive?

Fitzee

[Guest]

Looking for info on L. H. Locke who was a "gunlayer " in a DH9 shot down over Belgium in 1918. Also, was the gunner responsible for targeting and dropping the bombs, or was his job in this aircraft solely defensive?

Fitzee

Hi Fitzee,

Your man was Leslie Harold Locke who was originally an RNAS man as his description gunlayer indicates. The RAF had Aerial Gunners. He enlisted as an Air Mechanic 2 on 7th Aug1915 Off No 7344, being promoted to Air Mechanic 1 on 15th Dec 1916 He became a Private 1 RAF Off No 207344 on 1st April 1918. You should be able to get his RNAS service record on ADM188. I would appreciate any further info you find to add to my database.

I will leave it to others to comment on his RAF service, his duties in DH9's etc.

Hope this helps.

Regards Duncan

[Dolphin]

Lt W F Purvis and AMII L H Locke were flying in DH 9 C1211 of No 218 Sqn RAF on a bombing mission over the Zeebrugge Mole on 29 June 1918 when their engine was hit by German anti-aircraft fire (or they were successfully attacked by [then] Flugmaat Alexandre Zenses of Marine-Feldjasta II*) and forced to land. Fortunately the aeroplane was able to glide into neutral Holland. After firing red and white flares to alert the Dutch to their plight, the crew landed at Breskens, Zeeland, still with 8 bombs on board.

C1211 was impressed into Dutch service as deH434; it was returned to the RAF on 20 March 1920.

* = according to the list of Zense's victories in Above the Lines, his victory on 29 June was a Bristol Fighter.

I hope this is useful.

Gareth

[Adrian Roberts]

Also, was the gunner responsible for targeting and dropping the bombs, or was his job in this aircraft solely defensive?

Normally in WW1 2-seaters, the pilot aimed the bombs. At different times in the war, there were different procedures as to whether the pilot or observer aimed bombs, operated the Wireless Telegraph, operated cameras etc. [see previous threads on this]. But as this man was a lowly Air Mechanic, equivalent to Private or L/Cpl, it is pretty certain that his role would be purely to act as gunner.

If they were hit in the engine, it is more likely that they were hit by a single fragment of AA fire, rather than by a fighter that would probably attack from behind.

Gareth's post suggests he was an AMII, but Duncan's that he had been promoted to AM1, and that his actual rank was Private. Is there an explanation for this, possibly to do with how RNAS personnel were absorbed into the RAF?

Adrian

[MikeW]

Fitzee,

the 218 Squadron Association historian is trying to "flesh out" the 1918 period of the squadron's history. You might be able to help each other out if you contact him. Try to get Steve Smith on

Smudger.smith218@ntlworld.com

If you can't get him, let me know.

Mike

[fitzee]

Thanks for the info on Leslte Locke. My Grandfather William Purvis was flying C1211 that day over Belgium .From a report he wrote to the Dutch Naval Attache it seemed the aircraft was malfunctioning from early on in the mission [the DH9's "puma" was plagued with problems] He had to maintain full power to keep up with the formation and after crossing the lines he knew they would be a sitting duck if they turned back. Over the target area the engine was knocking and smoking forcing them to lose altitude untiI in his own words the AA "fired upon me very accurately".

My Grandfather lived into his eighties. A photograph of the downed machine C1211 crashed in a farmers field hung in the foyer of his home in Toronto. He received it after the war. I will try to post it in the next few days. In 1969, a reunion was arranged in London for Purvis and Locke, although they had kept in touch, the two men had not seen each other for fifty years.

Fitzee

[Guest]

Normally in WW1 2-seaters, the pilot aimed the bombs. At different times in the war, there were different procedures as to whether the pilot or observer aimed bombs, operated the Wireless Telegraph, operated cameras etc. [see previous threads on this]. But as this man was a lowly Air Mechanic, equivalent to Private or L/Cpl, it is pretty certain that his role would be purely to act as gunner.

If they were hit in the engine, it is more likely that they were hit by a single fragment of AA fire, rather than by a fighter that would probably attack from behind.

Gareth's post suggests he was an AMII, but Duncan's that he had been promoted to AM1, and that his actual rank was Private. Is there an explanation for this, possibly to do with how RNAS personnel were absorbed into the RAF?

Adrian

On checking the RAF Muster List Locke was an Acting Air Mechanic 1 on transfer to the RAF. He became a Private 1 as only technical trades were classed as Air Mechanics, even Assistant Armourers were not considered to be technical. There was a considerable financial difference. Pte 1 was paid one shilling and eight pence per day, whereas had he been technical he would have become an Air Mechanic 2 on a wage of three shillings per day. His details can be found on page 1646 of the Muster List

As far as transfer of ratings was concerned this was made more confusing as there were only two classes of Air Mechanic in the RNAS whilst there were three classes in the RAF

RNAS Air Mechanic1 above a certain seniority became RAF Air Mechanic1

RNAS Air Mechanic1 below this seniority and Acting Air Mechanic 1 became RAF Air Mechanic 2

RNAS Air Mechanic 2 always became an RAF Air Mechanic 3

RNAS Aircraftmen 1 or 2 became Privates 1 or 2 as appropriate (Yes Aircraftsman was originally an RNAS rating) Non technical Air Mechanics 1 or 2 became Privates 1 or 2 as appropriate.

I hope this makes some sense.

RNAS Air Mechanic2 always became RAF Air Mechanic 3

[fitzee]

Bill Purvis and Leslie Lockes DH9 in Holland.

Fitzee

[medals1976]

Whilst on the subject of ranks, I have seen WW1 medals to R.N.A.S with the rank of AC1. Does anyone know why medals were named with this rank and not AM1?

Thanks,

Mike.

[Guest]

Bill Purvis and Leslie Lockes DH9 in Holland. Hope you enjoy the photo

Fitzee

Hi Fitzee,

Air Mechanics were tradesmen of various sorts such as engineers, electricians, riggers, drivers, draughtsmen boat builders etc

whilst Aircraftsman (AC) was non technical, labourers, storemen, gun layers, writers etc.

Regards Duncan