PhilB Posted 30 August , 2006 Share Posted 30 August , 2006 One of Clive Temple`s recent posts had a 6th LF officer writing that he hadn`t had chance to ride his horse yet. In Gallipoli! (Have I misread it?) Now, I know there were lots of horses there but I assumed they`d be for pulling guns and carrying supplies, but I can`t help thinking they`d be very vulnerable on the Peninsula. Surely officers wouldn`t have chargers there? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 30 August , 2006 Share Posted 30 August , 2006 There are a few pictures of Mounted Officers there. Presumably in anticipation of what should have been rather than events as they panned out...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windy Posted 30 August , 2006 Share Posted 30 August , 2006 Grandfather talked about the horse races conducted by the Australians on a special track along the beach between Suvla Bay and Brighton Beach. He had a particularly favourite jockey on whom he won several weeks pay for a number of winning rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenbecker Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Mate, The horses used by the aussies forces were only used in the later stages of battle after the Aug 1915. After the landings at Suvla and the conection with the Anzac front they organized a message troop to ride despatches from one front to the other. I am unware of any horses for officers and to pull transport around but its possible to some degree that after Aug 1918 this may have happened. The main use of animals was the donkey and it was used to move stores and maybe the guns not horses. At lest on Anzac but what the British used at Suvla I am unaware to move their guns and stores around. Cheers S.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windy Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Grandfather's brother was an Old Contemptible. I am almost certain there was a photo in his Association Mag which the 2 oldies called the Suvla Derby and often trotted it out to embellish their stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 The OC Ross Mountain Battery, Major Bryce Allan, was invalided off the peninsula 20 August 1915 due to injuries suffered from a fall from his horse. At that time, the Ross Battery and the Argyll Mountain Battery were both in the hills east of Suvla Bay. Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 the new book from the I.W.M. "the animals war" pg 29 show dozens of horses all over the place on W beach.Sorry have'nt got a scanner to send you a copy..but it's there.. also cant remember where i have it,but the famous picture of a Aussie DonR galloping past the camera as well..And ofcourse goes without saying John Kirkpatrick Simpson..not horses but always remembered. Andy @ history horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 If you go here http://cas.awm.gov.au/TST2/cst.acct_master...r&bos=Win32 Type in Horses Gallipoli Conflict WW1 also horse gallipoli will bring up more You will find photos and captions such as that below relating to horses at Gallipoli. GALLIPOLI, TURKEY, 1915. LANDING 5TH BATTERY, 1ST DIVISION HORSES FROM SS KARROO ONTO PONTOON. THE HORSES WERE FOR 5TH BATTERY USE AT GAllIPOLI Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 carefull now..if you type in horses galloping you get all sorts of stuff hey made it to Sgt major...quick promotion little work done .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2006 A shot of horses from Taylor & Cupper`s "Gallipoli - A Battlefield Guide". They don`t look like mules, donkeys or draught horses? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Phil, Your pic above ties in with Steve Becker's earlier comment '...after Aug 1915.' I don't think that horses were much called for at either Helles or Anzac [The pic is of Suvla] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 hard to tell but these look like light draught horses to me..used for general duties,wagon,water bowsers,and gun movement etc..no mules...but you have to put up with "just" horses sometimes....i'm biased..love my mule way to much... Andy@ history horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2006 I know little about horses, Andy, but wouldn`t draught horses look heavier? I`m surprised at the numbers. Were they all general purpose horses or were they contemplating some kind of mounted action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Phil....i have tack to clean..but here goes. perhaps your thinking of the shire/clydesdale type of horse. These where saved for the bigger type of guns say with the garrison artillery,before they starting useing the traction engines and tractors. light draught would be like heavy cobs,and "cart horses" if you like.the "white vans" of there day,as apposed to the "lorries" of the heavy horses..with me. The Kings troop R.H.A use Irish Draught horses today,not shires,but not exactly racehorses either. Mules on the other hand are just great...sorry biased again. It was just snobery that stoped the gunners useing them to draw the guns i think..never seen a gun being pulled by mules. (Unless they where rescueing a horse team from out the mud.)Be VERY interested to see a pic of them pulling guns normally in english service if anyone has one.. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 HMT Royal Edward torpedoed 13/08/15 on the way to Gallipoli had one horse in its cargo. Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 On a closer look at the photo they are not be full draught but draught type. Stockier and thicker in the body and legs than normal riding horses. For those jobs that Andy outlined. Horses at Anzac would have been useless except for maybe the Suvla area, in fact Bean's comments in Gallipoli Mission bring this home. http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories...chapters/04.pdf A goat would have been better, hence, the donkeys. kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 31 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Another use. Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beersheba Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Kim the ute's of there day mate...another aspect much forgoten...but vital to the war. cheer's for that other stuff mate. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 The first artillery to land at W Beach - two sections of the 4th Highland (Mountain) Brigade - about noon on 25 April, used their Highland Ponies to carry their guns up to their first positions near the old lighthouse and behind 1st Essex positions on Hill 138, then returned (with drivers) to the beach to haul water and SAA to the infantry still fighting nearby. There was also one RFA Battery landed that day as well. These ponies kept the infantrymen supplied for three days until sufficient mules were landed to take over as no provisions had been made for ASC support at that time. Their contribution was duly noted and appreciated in the 29th Div. Arty WD's, in letters from Simpson-Baikie later and in comments by General Hamilton at the unveiling of the Stornoway War Memorial in 1927. Although not "chargers" (the officer's chargers were landed and in use, but not very useful until the beachhead had been expanded) they are horses and were beloved by the men of the highlands and islands and may have been the first equine combatants to land - who knows? The photo is of Gunner Hugh cameron and his pony "Baron" killed at Gallipoli by a sniper's bullet while Gunner Cameron was in hosital in Alexandria. He was heart broken when he returned and learned the news. (Photo taken in Bedord in 1914.) Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 quote: These ponies kept the infantrymen supplied for three days until sufficient mules were landed to take over as no provisions had been made for ASC support at that time. Mike, if I remember correctly, the Zion Mule Corps was supposed to fulfil that role at that time, but their mules were delayed when the transport had problems leaving Mudros - I rather fancy that it ran aground but I cannot swear to that without doing the look-ups regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noublions Posted 2 September , 2006 Share Posted 2 September , 2006 Phil, Your pic above ties in with Steve Becker's earlier comment '...after Aug 1915.' I don't think that horses were much called for at either Helles or Anzac [The pic is of Suvla] YES AT SUVLA! The picture is worth a thousand words and explains the whole problem of the Dardanelles Campaign. Instead of getting the Infantry into the hills where they could have made the breakout from Anzac a realistic attempt, THEY waited till the logistics of supplying fodder to the horses and tea to the troops just bogged everything down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 2 September , 2006 Share Posted 2 September , 2006 Michael, Thanks for that information. I would like to know if that information pops up again for you. The mission of supplying water and SAA was (obviously) critical as both were being used faster than anticipated and both were necessary to maintain a fighting presence, yet the means to move supplies from the beach had to be improvised by the only four legged transport already on the ground - the BAC sections of the 4th Highland Mountain Brigade. Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 3 September , 2006 Share Posted 3 September , 2006 Mike, quote: "I would like to know if that information pops up again for you" They were on board the Hymettus and due to leave Mudros along with those to land first however when "turning to cast an anchor" the Hymettus ran into a sand bank and despite vigorous efforts she could not be refloated while still fully loaded. The ZMC soldiers, mules and equipment, then transferred to the Dundremon and she landed them on the peninsula on the 27th April [instead of the 25th] The men were near exhaustion having had no rest and having loaded/unloaded/reloaded again their gear and animals. Nevertheless they worked through the night again to unload and immediately 200 mules set off from V Beach with supplies and water for those on the western, Aegean shore. As your earlier post suggests, at this stage the ZMC were the only 'transport unit' on the peninsula. Regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 3 September , 2006 Share Posted 3 September , 2006 There is another thread running at the moment concerning horses and the artist Matania This is his portrayal of an incident on Gallipoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 3 September , 2006 Share Posted 3 September , 2006 Mike, quote: "I would like to know if that information pops up again for you" They were on board the Hymettus and due to leave Mudros along with those to land first however when "turning to cast an anchor" the Hymettus ran into a sand bank and despite vigorous efforts she could not be refloated while still fully loaded. The ZMC soldiers, mules and equipment, then transferred to the Dundremon and she landed them on the peninsula on the 27th April [instead of the 25th] The men were near exhaustion having had no rest and having loaded/unloaded/reloaded again their gear and animals. Nevertheless they worked through the night again to unload and immediately 200 mules set off from V Beach with supplies and water for those on the western, Aegean shore. As your earlier post suggests, at this stage the ZMC were the only 'transport unit' on the peninsula. Regards Michael Thanks Michael. That's great detail to round out the story of why these sorely needed artillery assets were pressed into service for an even more basic need. Of course, the guns were put into action that afternoon, but without their ponies should there have been a need to move them any distance. Here's another indicator of how desperate the situation was and another reason to deeply admire and respect the ability of these soldiers to deal with the contingencies that arose and still establish a solid line by nightfall. Had the landing force been moving toward Achi Baba as planned, they would have needed their ponies to keep up! Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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