HMS Negro

[Hambo]

I came across the name of William Allardyce on a war memorial in Scotland last week and he caught my eye because he had the rank of Probationary Surgeon. Later, I was walking through the local grave yard and found his name commemorated on his parent's grave where it said he was killed in a collision in the North Sea on the 20th of December 1916

I checked CWGC on my return and he is listed as killed on the 21st

Two questions

What was a "Probationary" Surgeon

Does anyone know anything about the collision and which other vessel was involved and whether any other men were killed

Many thanks Hambo

[Michael Lowrey]

Hambo,

The collision was between Negro and the destroyer leader Hoste. The smaller Negro sank quickly with heavy loss of life. The destroyers Marvel and Marmion attempted to tow Hoste to port but were unsuccesful and she was lost as well.

Conway's lists the date of the collision as the 21st.

Best wishes,

Michael

[kin47]

Hello

Four ratings were lost in HOSTE. Five officers and forty six ratings were lost in NEGRO.

All best

don

[Hambo]

Thanks for that. The 21st ties up with CWGC, looks like the grave is incorrect

Do you happen to know what the "Probationary" means, I assume it's like am assistant as he was only 19. According to CWGC he went to Trinity Dublin but he can't have completed his medical training before he went into the service

Thanks again Hambo

[joseph]

Hambo,

Cannot find any reference to 'Probationary Surgeon', a Surgeon Probationer was a medical student or doctor who had not passed for Surgeon. I found a reference in a Doctors Obit that may expand on it but I cannot find any formal reference to Probationary Surgeon.

Kirk started to qualify as a doctor and had completed his first year when he was called up and as a probationary surgeon given a month’s first-aid and wound-management crash course in the Royal Victoria Infirmary, followed by another month at the Royal Naval Hospital at Haslar, Gosport.

Regards Charles

[historydavid]

Is it possible that by 1916 the "rule" was being ignored, so that anyone who had the intention to qualify as a doctor, was being accepted as a probationer (learner)?

Best wishes

David

[joseph]

David,

The navy did accept probationers but they had to pass the examinations, the fact that these men where being paid negates the fact that the 'rule' was ignored, the bean counters didnt.... where money was concerned!. Ive had a scurry through the London Gazette but cannot find any authority. If its there Im sure someone will come up with it, or it could be a simple mix up of words.

Regards Charles

[Hambo]

Thanks, I've checked my notes and it is Probationer so sounds like he was getting some on the job training

Thanks to you all