SHARONCMAUD Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Hi all, still doing family history !! Found on CWGC site Rifleman R Jolly A/547, 8th Bn, Kings Royal Rifle Corps who died age 15 on 11 September, 1915 Son of the late Stephen Blake Jolly and Patricia Jolly, Remembered with honour POTLIZE Burial Ground Cemetery. Can anyone out there help me with any other information. The Robert Jolly in our family 5th King's Own Kitcheners Army and Harold Jolly, Royal Engineers have connections to Blackpool, Fleetwood and Preston. Is this young man one of the youngest to be killed in 1915 ? any info would be truly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Is this young man one of the youngest to be killed in 1915 ? any info would be truly appreciated. Just missed 1915 by 14 days, but the only one I've come across so far is Valentine Strudwick of the 8th Battalion Rifle Brigade who died age 15 on 14th January 1916 (see here). Bound to be loads of others - though not necessarily all with their true ages listed, given that those under the age of enlistment who volunteered would have lied about how old they were. cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Whilst V J Strudwick's grave is one of the most visited due to it being located in Essex Farm Cemetery, the young man below is in the lonely but beautiful Rifle House Cemetery in Ploegsteert Wood. Name: BARNETT, ROBERT Initials: R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Rifleman Regiment/Service: Rifle Brigade Unit Text: 1st Bn. Age: 15 Date of Death: 19/12/1914 Service No: 5509 Additional information: Son of Phillip and Esther Barnett, of 95, Belgrade Rd., Stoke Newington, London. One of the youngest battle casualties of the war. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. E. 10. Cemetery: RIFLE HOUSE CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 This is the battle casualty who has the youngest age proven (as opposed to claimed) without doubt. He died as a PoW and had been wounded six months earlier when only 13 years and 9 months. Name: ROSS, DAVID S. U. Initials: D S U Nationality: South African Rank: Private Regiment/Service: South African Infantry Unit Text: 2nd Regt. Age: 14 Date of Death: 25/03/1918 Service No: 11322 Additional information: Son of Mr. C. G. and Mrs. S. J. Ross, of Room 15, 218, Arcida Mansions, Johannesburg. At 14 years and 3 months, Pte. Ross is one of the youngest soldiers killed in the 1914-1918 war. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. Cemetery: HEUDICOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Is there a list of the 14 and 15 year olds anywhere ? I am sure our schools would be interested. I was not aware of Ross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 Ian I can supply such a list if you need it. There are 326 names listed by CWGC aged 13-15 years old. There is one 13 year old - a Mercantile Marine boy who died due to enemy action at sea and so is even younger than Ross above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Doneley Posted 23 August , 2006 Share Posted 23 August , 2006 James Charles (Jim) Martin (1901–1915) Private James Charles (Jim) Martin is thought to be the youngest Australian to have died on active service. He was born in the Melbourne suburb of Hawthorn, on 3 January 1901 and, having just left school to work as a farmhand, enlisted in the Australian Imperial Force (AIF) in April 1915 at the age of 14 years and 3 months. He told the recruiting officers that he was 18. He joined the 1st Reinforcements of the 21st Battalion and, after training at Broadmeadows and Seymour Camps in Victoria, left for Egypt on the troopship HMAT Berrima in June. In late August, he embarked for Gallipoli on the steamer HMT Southland, to have our share of the Turks, he wrote. When the ship was torpedoed by a German submarine off Lemnos Island, he spent four hours in the water before being rescued. Private Martin landed with his battalion on Gallipoli on 8 September. They were stationed in the trenchlines near Courtney's Post on the ridge above Monash Valley. He wrote to his family that the Turks are still about 70 yards away from us and asked them not to worry about him as I am doing splendid over here. But on 25 October he was evacuated to the hospital ship Glenart Castle suffering from typhoid fever caught in the trenches. He died of heart failure that evening. He was buried at sea. His name is recorded on the Australian memorial at Lone Pine. Over twenty other Australians under the age of 18 died in the First World War. source : www.awm.gov.au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 I reckon this Boy has be the one of the Youngest.There is a Newspaper article in October 1916 issue of the Daily Mirror which Headlines "Enlisted At 12" and refers to a Pte of S.Lewis of the East Surreys who was detected whilst serving an underage Soldier on the Somme.If my memory serves me correctly there is also a picture of the Lad. http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=1671187 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 I reckon this Boy has be the one of the Youngest. http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=1671187 This one is incorrect. He is recorded as 2 years old on the 1901 Census so 19/20 at the time of death. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 This one is incorrect. He is recorded as 2 years old on the 1901 Census so 19/20 at the time of death. Andy. You had better tell Richard Van Emden then as he lists Rifleman Steward in his Book "Boy Soldiers of the Great War" Page 299.Its seems Odd that Fredericks family would give the CWGC incorrect details about his age,also that Mr.Van Emden would make an error of this sort and allowing it go into print before having checked this fact..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 20 October , 2009 Share Posted 20 October , 2009 Please save the sarcasm for someone or something else. I don't think I need to tell Richard van Emden anything about the rigour of his research. He's paid more than enough to do his own work and do it properly. He may well be a published author - and his pronouncements accepted as fact by some; I'm an unpublished amateur with a subscription to Ancestry and a sceptic by nature. Here's my evidence: From CWGC: Son of Frederick and Ada Steward From Soldiers Died: born Leytonstone From FreeBMD: Frederick James STEWARD born June ¼ of 1899 in West Ham R.D. No corresponding birth of a Frederick Steward in 1902/03/04 that fits the bill. From 1901 Census: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Service 1952 Posted 21 October , 2009 Share Posted 21 October , 2009 Here's another young 'un. Not quite the age group you are looking for, but worthy of further mention. Horace Iles of the 15th West Yorkshire Regiment. http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=593601 Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 21 October , 2009 Share Posted 21 October , 2009 Found on CWGC site Rifleman R Jolly A/547, 8th Bn, Kings Royal Rifle Corps who died age 15 on 11 September, 1915 Son of the late Stephen Blake Jolly and Patricia Jolly, Remembered with honour POTLIZE Burial Ground Cemetery. Can anyone out there help me with any other information. The Robert Jolly in our family 5th King's Own Kitcheners Army and Harold Jolly, Royal Engineers have connections to Blackpool, Fleetwood and Preston. Hi to answer your other query, this is from SDGW, no Lancashire connection by the looks of things I'm afraid: - RONALD JOLLY Regiment, Corps etc King's Royal Rifle Corps Battalion/etc 8th Battalion. Surname Jolly Christian Name Ronald Initials R Born Walworth Enlisted St. Pancras, Middx. Residence Barnes, Middx. Rank RIFLEMAN Number A/547 Died Date 11/09/1915 Died How Killed in action Theatre of War France & Flanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Service 1952 Posted 21 October , 2009 Share Posted 21 October , 2009 Please save the sarcasm for someone or something else. I don't think I need to tell Richard van Emden anything about the rigour of his research. He's paid more than enough to do his own work and do it properly. He may well be a published author - and his pronouncements accepted as fact by some; I'm an unpublished amateur with a subscription to Ancestry and a sceptic by nature. Here's my evidence: I've just caught this and haven't stopped laughing at the reply. I wish there were a few more who would question what is put in front of them. The evidence looks sound. Instinct proves right. Cheers Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 21 October , 2009 Share Posted 21 October , 2009 This is the grave of Pte D.S.U. Ross 2nd. SA Reg't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 21 October , 2009 Share Posted 21 October , 2009 No Sarcasm intended,lighten up !. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 21 October , 2009 Share Posted 21 October , 2009 I would suspect that the age of 14 given for Rifleman Steward may be his age on joining the London Irish Rifles which would have been in 1912 by the look of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=445823 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=488083 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=445823 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=488083 The first, Alfred Bootham, was 18 at the time of his death, not 16. He was born in the March 1/4 of 1897 in the Gorton R.D. He is listed on the 1901 Census (although the family's surname is transcribed as Boothman rather than Bootham) as living at 5, Moorcroft Street, Gorton - and his mother is recorded as Martha A. Boothman. Still too young to die, but two years older than recorded by CWGC, and that two years tends to preclude a lot of the mawkishness associated with this particular group of casualties. I have not checked the other one yet - a more common name so it will take a bit of sifting through the records to establish whether his recorded age is correct. My point is not to disparage these men/boys - simply to question and test what is written and often gliby accepted as fact without even a cursory check. I have found a couple of genuinely young casualties among the local men I have researched, although there is no record of their age in the CWGC database; one is either 14 or 15, but I can't be absolutely sure which at the moment (although I'm erring towards 15). I suspect that one particularly fruitful area of research for anyone interested in this are the casualty lists for H.M.Ships Hogue, Aboukir, Cressy, Monmouth and Good Hope. By and large, they were crewed by reservists and boys. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 This is makes for very interesting reading,and a very good piece of research. http://www.cwgc.co.uk/ Scroll down to the section on the John Condon burial.One further question please.If the ages of the Soldiers are incorrect,why has the CWGC not amended their databse and amended the Headstones and Cemetery registers,maybe Terry Denham can comment on these anomalies. ?.Regards Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 It is an exceptional piece of research - but not theirs. The plaudits must go to Mr. Aurel Sercu for that one. The reason the CWGC have not recognised it when it is quite plain there has been a mistake? I suspect politics, although not necessarily on the part of the CWGC - John Condon's grave is famous and brings a lot of publicity. Facts are often disregarded on such occasions. It's also one of those stories where so much tripe has been peddled about it that it has become a factoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 I'm trying to find out about another 15 year old (from the "other side" this time)... http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...c=135436&hl= Any help appreciated! dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 23 October , 2009 Share Posted 23 October , 2009 It is an exceptional piece of research - but not theirs. The plaudits must go to Mr. Aurel Sercu for that one. Yup,i was certainly very aware of Aurels research into the Condon affair,and the Fallout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesrein Posted 5 April , 2010 Share Posted 5 April , 2010 This is the battle casualty who has the youngest age proven (as opposed to claimed) without doubt. He died as a PoW and had been wounded six months earlier when only 13 years and 9 months. Name: ROSS, DAVID S. U. Initials: D S U Nationality: South African Rank: Private Regiment/Service: South African Infantry Unit Text: 2nd Regt. Age: 14 Date of Death: 25/03/1918 Service No: 11322 Additional information: Son of Mr. C. G. and Mrs. S. J. Ross, of Room 15, 218, Arcida Mansions, Johannesburg. At 14 years and 3 months, Pte. Ross is one of the youngest soldiers killed in the 1914-1918 war. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 3. Cemetery: HEUDICOURT COMMUNAL CEMETERY I'm very interested in this case. Why doesn't he seem to be offically known as one of the youngest ? Is his case proven ? Is there a birth certificate ? I only have his attestion papers on which he is of course 19 years old. I would be pleased if anybody could give me the real proof of David Ross's age. If so, why isn't his age mentioned on his grave. Remarkably Richard Emden does mention him, but only devotes one line to him. Ted Smith and Pagnoly wrote about David Ross in one of their 'Salient Points' but do only mention 'private papers' as source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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